Building Authority: Justin Peters’ Tips for Getting Booked and Growing Your Brand

Thanks, Sara. I appreciate the invite.

I'm so excited to have you here. You are, uh, my favorite competitor. Uh, we go to a, we go to a lot of events together. We're in the same city and I love being able to partner with you on projects, collaborate with you, and just be in this industry with you. And I learn a lot from you, so I am excited to have you here and see if other people can learn a few things as well. So let's get started and just talk about your first stage.

Yeah, the, um, I think speaking was always something I was interested in. Like, I always enjoyed public speaking. I wasn't— I didn't shy away from it. But my first real big opportunity was when I was 20 years old. I was actually writing blog posts about careers in the insurance industry. Industry. I was very passionate about helping young people get into the insurance industry, and I wrote a post and it went viral. And a month later, a big association in the industry reached out to me and was like, hey, would you want to be a speaker at this upcoming conference? And I didn't ask a whole lot of questions.

I pretty much just said yes. And I came to find out that I was going to be speaking in front of 250 people, which is a very big first speaking opportunity., but it went really well. Um, I think the, the talk was about 20 or 30 minutes long. Um, luckily I got some, some help from like a co-speaker that was with me that was a, um, a part of the association. But yeah, that was my first big one. I ripped the bandaid off and I was definitely nervous, but it turned out great and I've been running since then.

I love that. I love how you started off on a big stage cuz most of us start off on the small ones, the little breakout rooms, petrkoocza, um, a couple minutes, whatever it is. And I always, for like podcasts, I always recommend like start on the smaller shows, get the reps in, get some practice. But I started on Stacking Benjamins, which is one of the biggest finance podcasts there is. So, uh, kind of similar there. And I probably was way, way underqualified to be on that show. I know I was. Uh, but that, that first stage being in front of that many people, was that something that you did that and suddenly you're like, I want to be on more stages.

I, I want to be doing this, or did it scare you?

Like, what was that like? Probably yes and yes. Definitely scared me. I was definitely very nervous going into that talk, especially whenever I started to see people file in and how many seats that were just in this auditorium, which was crazy. But afterwards, I was so jazzed up. I was so energized. I realized I got so much excitement from speaking, not only on physical stages, but online stages too. And doubled down on it. I actually joined Toastmasters probably a year or two after that.

And did Toastmasters for probably 3 or 4 years just to hone in the skill of public speaking. And I've been looking for opportunities kind of on and off over the last decade or so to, to speak.

Okay, I'm curious, because you've— since then you've done smaller stages, you've done smaller audiences, you may have done larger audiences. How do you feel about the audience size? Like, do you get more or less nervous? Because for some reason I feel like if it's a smaller audience, I get more nervous.

I probably get a little bit more nervous now, honestly, with some smaller audiences too. Like I was at Podfest and I think the crowd was about 40 people, which still has some size to it, but I could see everyone's face. I felt like I really was connected with everybody in that room versus looking out into 250 people. You kind of just glaze over on top of their heads and you're like just speaking into the back of the room and not necessarily focusing on, on one or a couple of Specific people. Um, but yeah, I, I probably get nervous every time that I, I speak. Probably the only place that I don't get too nervous anymore is podcasting, and that's just 'cause I've gotten 250, 300 reps on being on shows or hosting my own show. But yeah, I, I still get nervous just about any size stage.

If somebody wanted like their first stage, do you— the way you did it was probably unconventional. Is that like, what would you recommend for people that do just wanna get started?

It was probably a little unconventional, or at least you couldn't necessarily manufacture speaking opportunities. But I do suggest that people do work on their personal brand and build an identity so that when opportunities come up, they are thought about and/or if they apply for them, they have some recognition or they, they are qualified to speak on stage. The only reason I got on that stage was because I was creating content. That was probably like my 15th article that I've had around careers in the insurance industry and, I don't think it was necessarily random that I got, that someone reached out to me. They were just looking for a young voice. So I think if you start just by putting yourself out there via social media, via podcasting, via whatever, start building a personal brand, start creating some content, I think some opportunities are going to find you. But I do think there are some ways to actually be more proactive to get on stages as well.

You said something interesting. You said, um, about being qualified to be on the stage. What does that mean to you? Like, how, how do you know if you are qualified? What does it mean to be qualified to be on a stage, to be a speaker?

I think being able to answer and guide the audience through a specific problem that they have shown up to learn does have some qualifications to it. Um, you and I have both gone to similar conferences where sometimes we go and we sit in a session and The title of the session sounded great, and then the person starts speaking. You're like, they don't know what they're doing. They haven't gone through this themselves. They haven't helped other people go through it. They're not even thinking about it as a student. You know, if you go into it as a student mentality, a teacher mentality, or just a senior expert in the space, I think you can be qualified in any of those particular directions. But you have to give some thought to what you are speaking about.

And I think that is kind of where some of the qualification that I'm, I'm speaking about comes from.

I love that. And you actually made me think, just this past Podfest, um, someone did a presentation. I don't know exactly what it was about, but a friend of mine comes out and tells me, yeah, that was a waste of time. When they answered— when they open it up to questions, the first question was basically, how do you do the thing that we came here to listen to? Yeah, because instead of talking about— the title was how to do this And instead of talking about how to do it, they just talked about the fact that they had done it.

Yes.

And that doesn't offer much of anything. And what is, um, those conferences that we go to, things like Podfest and FinCon, where a lot of the speakers, they're only on stage because they applied to be a speaker. And that might be the only place that they've spoken before, um, but they're speaking on things that. They are doing every day usually. And I found like those are usually a good place to start. What has your experience been like speaking at those kinds of conferences?

I love those conferences. Actually, I think you gave the silver bullet to getting started, which is just apply. Like, like literally, I think not enough people actually put themselves out there, uh, make the ask. And sometimes that ask is filling out an application. Sometimes that ask is reaching out to the platform owner or the conference owner. Seeing if they're going to have speakers and then making a legitimate pitch to them. But I do think it's a great idea to try to crowdsource some of the quote-unquote stages that you would be most qualified to be on. I love signing up for their newsletters so that I always get alerts whenever speaker applications are going to be opened up and trying to connect with the organizers of those events and offering help and or offering to be able to speak at some of those opportunities.

And a lot of times I don't try to put a speaker fee behind what I do, especially if I'm going to be at the conference already. And this is almost just like a cherry on top. But yeah, I, I'm not one that's bashful about being intentional about reaching out and offering what I feel like is good expertise for the audience that they're trying to attract for their event.

You said that you don't necessarily ask for a speaker fee. And as a speaker, there are different ways that you can get paid to speak, whether it's actually a speaker fee where they're paying you to be on the stage, or you're maybe you're able to sell from the stage, or you're just using it for, um, to, to reach an audience and possibly, um, convert some leads. How have you used speaking to grow your business and actually get paid if you're not getting paid to be on the stage?

Yeah, I think speaking to client conversion is the biggest thing that I'm focused on whenever I am speaking. I try to talk on podcast-specific topics to to my ideal avatar, coaches and advisors, hoping that after they've heard my talk, they either come into my content ecosystem, start to consume more of who I am, and then eventually reach out and/or just find me right after the talk and say, hey, I'm ready, uh, to work with you. You're exactly the person I was looking for. That happened to me at Podfest. I walked out of there and immediately someone flagged me down and was like, we have to talk, like, I need to work with you, um, which was great. And I'm sure there was another 10 to 15 people that joined my newsletter or followed the podcast. And then here in 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, 5 years, they might pop up and say, hey, I need your services. Um, so that's my primary way of monetizing.

If it's an opportunity that doesn't necessarily fit a like lead conversion strategy, then I am typically looking for some kind of speaker fee or just doing it from a relationship building standpoint.

You made a good point that some of these people might stay in your ecosystem for years before they actually work with you. So With that in mind and not necessarily being able to convert something right off the bat, how do you judge whether a speaking opportunity was a success or not?

Ooh, that's a great question. Um, I don't know. I don't know if I've given that a ton of thought. I don't think I've been super intentional. There have been speaking opportunities where I've been more intentional, where I know based on a QR code or a link that I provided, how many people clicked on it and then signed up for my email newsletter list. Or followed a, or downloaded a resource that I was sharing. So I think some of those metrics are kind of stick with me in terms of success. But at the end of the day, did I really enjoy it? Did I feel like I was talking to my tribe? And did I have some really great either Q&A questions at the end or hallway conversations after the talk? Like there's a little bit of the quantitative and the qualitative that get added into speaking..

I would assume as I progress in my own speaking career, maybe I do start charging for, for speaking. Maybe I am more intentional about keynoting and making a career out of this. I would be more intentional, but as of right now, some of this is just a gut feel and maybe a little bit of metrics on the backend depending on signups or resources that I was sharing.

What was like your biggest win that you remember? Uh, you said like someone came up to you right after Podfest and just basically hired you on the spot. That's happened to me too. Yeah.

Um, Is, is that like the best one or is there— those are my favorites for sure. Yeah. I feel like I've done maybe 5 very targeted speaking opportunities over 2 years and I think every single one of them except for one, I immediately had some kind of business opportunity that came from it. Um, usually right after where someone's waiting for me in the hallway or a day after where someone reaches out and said, hey, I heard you speak. Um, can we hop on a call? So that is, that's probably the biggest impact that I can have is just getting leads right from the, the, the stage itself. And there's never one stage that I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm drowning in opportunity now. I think it's just one or two every single time, plus a bunch of new followers or a bunch of new subscribers. They start to stack on each other.

I actually had someone at Podfest that hired me almost on the spot for something I wasn't talking about. Which was, I want to say like, that's a pretty big win because it wasn't, I think, I don't, I was talking about something to do with like podcasting and they had, they were doing a TED Talk. Um, they had a TEDx talk coming up and she's like, the way that you told your story and spoke from the stage is what I want to do. And, and had me help her write the script for her TED Talk. That's cool. Because she's like, I want the audience to feel the way that I did. While you were telling a story. Yes.

And I'm like, okay, I feel unqualified for this, but let's go. And she, um, I worked with her for a while and she did her TED Talk and she's actually gonna be on the show soon too. So that's cool. I'm excited about that. Is there a certain way that you're structuring your talks for lead gen? Are you, do you do like the lead magnets, just a QR code to sign up? Like what is your strategy for the lead gen piece?

Um, just me in general and how I like to approach my topics. I'm always super tactical. I don't necessarily love like I'm just not a good inspirational speaker and I'm not like theoretical in any kind of way. I'm very tactical. So more times than not, there's at least one or two opportunities in a presentation deck that I can slide in a resource download or a, some kind of sign up in terms of like, you know, check out this episode or check out this newsletter that I wrote on this particular topic if you want to go deeper. Um, so I try to put at least 2 of those in and I like to do like the first third, the middle third, and then the final third, of course, is, um, if we're allowed to sell from stage, a little bit harder CT at the very end where I typically just share my email address. I don't like to overcomplicate things. I just say, hey, if you, um, want to continue the conversation or start a conversation with me, here's my email address or here's the QR code if you want to follow me on, on LinkedIn, sign up for the newsletter or subscribe to the podcast.

You've been in the podcasting space for a while. How has podcasting and speaking gone together for you?

Oh man, they're a match made in heaven. Like I think I know anyone that wants to be a professional speaker should consider podcasting. Um, I, I think there are varying degrees of what having a podcast could look like, but I think at minimum practicing your content on a mic, especially in front of no one, is going to help you on stage., both for idea generation. Like there are so many ideas that get fleshed out because I have a podcast, because I'm forced to create content every single week and really think about my ideal listener, what their, what their pain points are right now and how I can help with those pain points. So just from like an idea generation standpoint, like I have a list of like 100 different speaking topics I could pitch a conference or an association or summit, um, because I've given a lot of thought to a different, a bunch of different pain points. Um, so I think that's big. And then of course you just get better as a speaker whenever you're on podcasts, especially if you edit your own shows for a while, you start to learn the little ticks of what you say. I say like, um, as well a lot, like I'll end, um, sentences like that.

So a lot of times after I'm done editing or reviewing a podcast, I'll write down at least one or two things that I want to focus on next time whenever I'm either interviewing someone or doing a solo episode. So just shaping your, your speaking ability, your cadence, your communication style is also a, a big plus for being a, a podcaster.

The last podcast that I hosted was branded and I think my thing was absolutely. Yes.

And Larry's was 100%.

Yes. Yeah. And we both said those at least 7 times per episode probably. And I am cringing just remembering it.

I say, oh my God, I love that. Or like, I love it. Like so many times after a, especially a guest response. It's different whenever I think you're speaking in a solo episode versus, um, being an interviewer because you're kind of responding to what someone is saying versus guiding the conversation or, or really directing the conversation as a soloist. But yeah, there are so many phrases that I cringe about after the fact, but, but yeah, I think it's well worth doing. And of course it's also gotta help with the, the personal branding play too, and just becoming a thought leader and someone that people think about whenever you start dominating and, And having a podcast, um, all of a sudden I, I feel like podcasts are almost like book author 2.0. Like you wrote a book about XYZ, well, you have the podcast about XYZ too. And I do think that really helps open some doors whenever it comes to speaking opportunities.

Is there a way that you've either seen people do or you recommend it or you've done yourself to use a podcast directly to get on stages, whether it's using clips as a speaker reel or anything like that?

Yeah, I definitely think you can chop up your content and create, add that to your, your sizzle reel or your speaker reel if you wanted to. I also love in speaker applications, if there's an opportunity for it, to just use a URL to my topic. If I've dived into that topic before, I'm pitching a topic and I say, if you want to kind of dive deeper into it, here's a link to a podcast episode that I created about that. And I do that with, with clients as well, where we, we really strategize Maybe they have an upcoming opportunity to speak to, so we'll create the topic and create a podcast episode about it, and then we'll use that in the speaker application itself. I don't know how well it works or how many people actually listen to the podcast episode, but clicking on a link and then going to a podcast that's all about a specific topic or niche that you want to cover on your conference, I feel like cannot hurt a speaker application.

That's genius. Yeah, I'm kind of ashamed I've never thought of that.

And, and this is, this is why I have you here.

I love it. That's the other thing I always say, um, which apparently you're not supposed to do. Uh, so I get a lot of people that ask me, um, or tell me that they're not ready to be a speaker because they don't speak like really polished or eloquently. And I'll be the first to say, neither do I. Um, I say, um, a lot. I'd probably have said it 4,000 times just in this episode. Um, but I don't speak in a way that's super, super polished and what you'd expect from like a keynote speaker or a TEDx speaker or something. But I also feel like you want to be authentic and be you.

And when I'm editing a podcast, I'm not editing out all of those ums and uhhs and grammatical grunts. What is your thought on that? And, and like the way that we're speaking and the way we're presenting ourselves?

I think I probably straddle the middle ground on that. Mm-hmm. I think you should consider trying to improve as a speaker and be able to articulate or communicate your message more clearly. And a lot of times that is taking out filler words, but at the same time, you have to start somewhere. And so many of these great keynote speakers that we look up to, if you just go find videos of them 10, 15, 20 years ago, you realize they probably started at the exact same place that you're into. And, and they're all right now saying, please don't do that. Yes. So through repetition, through practice, I think you'll naturally drop out some of these filler words, some of these crutches that you're using.

But then yes, at the same time too, I want you to show up authentically. And there are so many people, especially you and I are both in the personal finance space. There are speakers that I absolutely love going to their sessions every single time that they are on a, at a conference and speaking. And they're probably not the most polished. They're just really good. They have really good insight. So I always wanna learn from them., B, they really know their target audience and their niche that they're playing in. Um, and C, they're just great storytellers and that's okay to add in some ums or some crutch words.

And while you're telling stories, that's gotta be unavoidable. But once again, you can, you can actively practice trying to eliminate those if you are self-conscious or you wanna become a more polished speaker. What has been your favorite stage that you've been on? Oh man, the first one really hits home for me. It was just like I said, I was so naive going into the whole thing. I was 20 years old. I would approach that stage so much differently, um, having 10 years now of experience. Like, I just— it's so funny looking back, but honestly, I just like loved that opportunity so much too.

Um, trying to think what else.

What from, from that one, like, what, what did you do that you would do differently now? I would put a better story arc between, behind the presentation. I try to calm the nerves a little bit beforehand too. I think I like planned for a 30-minute talk and finished in like 21 minutes. I think we've all been there where we like think we're, we're gonna speak at the volume that we're practicing or at the pace that we're practicing at, but then you get on stage, you get nervous and you just spill as fast as you can. You like black out and forget half of a slide, so you just move on to the next one.

There's so many of those things.

So that's not just me also. Oh, there's, it's so many of us. But once again, patted myself on the back for showing up and really starting my speaking career on that front.

I, I also do the opposite of that, which is I know I have 30 minutes, so I'm going to put, uh, like an hour and a half worth of content into my slides and see what happens. And the amount of times I have apologized to Alex Sanfilippo because I speak— I've spoken at his online summits and they're like, you get 12 minutes. And I'm like, awesome, here's an hour and a half of content., and the people watching it, there's like live comments and I'm just seeing them say, um, is this going to be recorded because I'd like to listen to it at like 1/4 speed. Um, I was trying to take notes and I am 5 minutes behind now. Yeah, yeah. And I do that way too. That's why I can't do like Pecha Kucha where you have 5 minutes and you have to stick to your slides. I have no idea what's going to come out of my mouth when I get on stage, and that's probably not the best way to be a speaker, but Here we go.

I, I also loved, um, the FinCon panel that you were on that I moderated. That was really fun too. FinCon just has a special place in my heart. Same. So it was fun to finally get on stage at FinCon. I'd love to get back on stage at FinCon at some point in time too, but that one was a, a special one just 'cause I really love the FinCon community and it was fun to be a part of it. What about like your least favorite stage or your least favorite speaking? Experience? Um, I won't call it by name, but— oh, do it. But I went to a, um, I went to a small speaking opportunity and A, it was just disorganized.

Like, I, I think I was supposed to speak probably 45 minutes before I actually spoke, which is kind of like frustrating in itself too. Um, it wasn't the target demo that I was really going after. Um, the vibe wasn't necessarily the same that I was looking for. There was some interruption from like the MC, like during the talk itself, which I felt like was kind of weird. Like you just— that person wanted to add their, their, their thoughts in like mid-presentation, which I just felt like was a very hard place to present in. Um, so yeah, that was probably my least favorite. But honestly, did they think they were there as like color commentator? It felt like it. It felt like it.

And they, they had the mic too. They had an additional mic, so Like you would hear them come on, like the big speakers and just, you'd just have to stop and kind of let them finish and then try to pick up your train of thought again, which is just once again, very hard from a speaking standpoint.

I had an MC, my favorite MC ever, um, who introduced me basically by implying that I might be a stripper. What? The, like, um, the minute I'm about to walk on stage at an event where I'm already like the youngest person in the room probably, and no one is going to take me seriously. And my introduction was like a joke of like, she's probably a stripper, pretty much.

That's crazy.

Oh my God, it was so bad. I just stood there like I didn't know what to do, and I'm like, okay, here are my slides. Uh, I like— I wanted to run off, run out of the room. Yikes.

Yeah, MCs have a hard job.

They do.

They have to not do that. Yeah, I was about to say, do they have a hard job, or they just don't need it? Don't need to do some of these big things. You just really, you gotta know what your role is. You know, same when I moderate too. Like I know what my role is in, in moderation. Um, and I'm here to spotlight the panelist at that point in time, ask great questions and, and really guide the conversation. But I don't need to add my two cents into everyone's answer or else we're gotta get to half the questions that I was really planning on.

Yeah. I remember when you were the moderator for, um, the panel I was on at FinCon and you did a really good job. And I feel like before you would ask a new question, you would add like— not, not every time, but a few times you would add a little bit of your own perspective on it. Yeah. And I thought that was very smart of you because it's like it's taking advantage of the position that you're in without trying to overshadow the people on the panel.

And you just did it very skillfully, and I was really impressed. Yeah, I feel like you gotta— you gotta play the dance on, on as a moderator. Like, you got to find your moments that you want to add. Um, but it's not every single moment for sure. Like, you want to leave the panelists feeling like you did a really good job from a moderation standpoint.

So I'm glad you, you enjoyed my, my, my effort there. I did. No, you did great. Um, that's, that's another thing with conferences. You can be a speaker. There's different ways you could be the keynote. You can be a breakout speaker. You can lead a workshop.

Uh, but there's also the panel moderators and there's like the room moderators who introduce all of the speakers. And I think maybe those might be a little bit underappreciated or looked over. Mm-hmm. And so talk a little bit about how you've used those roles, um, to grow as a speaker.

Yeah. Many of those roles are stepping stones to bigger speaking opportunities at the same conference or other conferences thereafter. Um, I, I'm a big fan of not being the one to tell yourself no. And I mean this in a couple of ways. First, there are a lot of people that just don't fill out the application because they say, well, I'm not qualified to be a speaker. I, you know, there's way more talented people that will be speaking. That's not your job to decide that. That's the, um, that's the conference's job to decide that, or whoever the panel is that's, that's going through this speaker application.

So first things first, just fill out the damn application. Um, and that's really good practice to start saving all of that material because a lot of times in these applications they ask you for the same things. Over and over again. And yeah, sure, your email or your business name is not hard, but coming up with an idea and the description, a topic title for, for these are things that are a little bit harder. So just keep a running document of everything you've submitted, at least some of those, those tougher questions that are out there. Then if you get the no back on the speaker, you can just simply reply back and be like, cool, I'd love to still be involved in the conference somehow. If you need panelists, if you need moderators, if you need breakout session speakers, if you need like, just list even just volunteers, like just list a couple of opportunities that you would be excited to take, um, even after you got declined as a speaker, because then that's going to get you into the door. And then next year it's going to be way easier if you were an MC on one room, um, last year, kind of volunteer role that.

The, the committee is probably going to know your name now. They're going to take you a little bit more seriously and you might get a better opportunity next year to actually become a speaker. So I love just flipping it around and just sending out the offer. It doesn't hurt to once again put it out there. And I've had one opportunity that last minute someone replied back and said, hey, we had a couple of speakers drop out and we need to fill a couple of the stages. I know you, you submitted something a couple of months ago. We said no., but you've just been so good at staying on top of us and offering, other opportunities or volunteering your time. Would you mind taking one of these speaking opportunities? And then you gotta rush to get a presentation put together in 5 days, but hey, you got the opportunity.

And then if there are some, some good media that comes out of even like non-keynoting roles or big speaker roles, you still might get some good media, some good pictures and videos that you can then add into your speaker reel that you can leverage on social media that hopefully gives you even more credibility.

Next time you're, you're, um, applying to speak at a different conference or a different event. And this question might be a selfish one because I don't do it and I probably should start. Um, how do you recommend someone take those opportunities and repurpose them, whether it's for social media, for their website, whatever it is?

Like, are there some specific things that you do that, um, have worked well for you? Yeah, I, I mean, I love event recaps. Uh, I'm mostly a LinkedIn guy.. So I'm always thinking about how does this apply to LinkedIn? So I love event recaps. Here are my favorite things that I learned from this conference, or here were the 3 best questions that I got after my talk. Or like, there's always like an idea that comes out. And once again, that piece of media that I can then attach. A lot of times people like, I feel like on LinkedIn are just scrolling by. They don't even read the caption.

They see that I'm on stage speaking and that they just hit like, or that looks super cool., and then I save all the media from some of these professional events into another folder and I'll reuse that pretty occasionally. Like I'll just use it as a picture or a video on another post. Maybe I'm talking about speaking, maybe I'm not talking about it at all. Um, once again, still kind of gives me that credibility and showcases I was on stage and that I'm open to being on stages too. Um, I think there are some other probably more niche opportunities to repurpose. Uh, if you have a newsletter, of course repurposing your slides, your presentation, your favorite takeaways into your newsletter. If you have a podcast and they allow you to repurpose your talk, they recorded your talk and they allow you to repurpose to your podcast or to your YouTube feed, I'd consider putting it out there or even a part of it out there. Um, I think once again, um, you put so much work into preparing for that presentation.

You might as well figure out how can I reuse this effort 4, 5, 6 more times to get a little bit more runway from this opportunity.

And if you had just one, just bonus piece of advice for someone who wants to get on more stages, on bigger stages, on their first stage, whatever it is, what would that be?

But if you do 10 or 15, uh, out-of-state opportunities in a year, you're gonna start burning yourself out.

Um, so I think if you're just getting started, start local, um, and look for small opportunities to, to at least start building your speaking skills. Love that. And now you also just launched a podcast. Um, I wanna say yesterday. Yes. Um, at the time we're recording this, so tell people about that and where they can find it and where they can find you.

Yeah, it's a podcast playbook. If you are a podcaster, especially a business-owning podcaster, um, we talk all things content strategy, podcast growth. Um, I, I'm just trying to help people get more excited and get more from their podcast. I see how much hard work and effort goes into podcasting consistently, and I don't want someone to give up because they've seen their audience stall and no opportunities really come from podcasting. So creating a lot of good content over at the Podcast Playbook. Um, got 7 episodes out now, probably 15 by the time you're listening to this.

We got a, a whole slew of stuff coming out this month. Awesome. Well, everyone go find that, and you can find Justin at SimplePod Studios— is his company that he has with his brother— and like you said, all over LinkedIn. So thank you so much, Justin, again, my favorite competitor, uh, for being here. It was so fun to talk to you, and I will talk to everybody next week.

Thanks, Sara.