The Power of Referrals: Billy Sammons Shares Strategies for Getting Booked and Growing Your Brand

Sara Lohse:

Welcome to My First Stage, the podcast where experienced public speakers share how they started getting booked on stages and how they've used them to grow their business. I am here with Billy Sammons. He has built his business by referral, no cold calling or door knocking, but simple and effective strategies that any entrepreneur can use to build their referral community and grow their business. He started speaking in a classroom, and fittingly, he is here to teach all of us a little something about relationship building and building our businesses. So Billy, thanks so much for being here.

Billy Sammons:

Man, Sara, thank you for having me on the show. Uh, we have our Maryland connection where like you started close by where we are and then you moved to a much warmer area so you don't have to deal with all the crazy weather we're dealing with lately.

Sara Lohse:

Yes, I'm not currently in a blizzard, so I'm, I'm sorry for that. Um, but while you're snowed in, you get to do some podcasts.

Billy Sammons:

That's right, perfect.

Sara Lohse:

Oh, you know what, everything happens for a reason, right?

Billy Sammons:

That's it, that's it. Get some work done, let's go. Don't complain about it, just get to work.

Sara Lohse:

And before we hit record, you had said like there are two different ways that we could take this because you had your way— you started speaking in a classroom and then on physical stages and everything. So let's dive in. And I love that you had originally— what you had said was when you started like quote unquote speaking on stages, it was in a high school. It was as a teacher. And I love that because we have this idea that stages and speaking has to be on a physical stage at an event, at a conference, like on a TED Talk, whatever it is. But really public speaking is just anytime you are, have a platform and you're speaking to other people. And so you first got used to the feeling of being kind of the center of attention, the one, um, doing the speaking, the presenting, because you were a teacher. So talk a little bit more about that.

Billy Sammons:

Oh, well, I mean, the good news, bad news is when you're sitting in front of teenagers, you're never gonna be able to really entertain them, which kind of takes the pressure off. But at the same time, you're like, am I really gonna be able to reach 'em? Like every once in a while you'll have something good that you put out there. You're like, and you know, it resonates and they enjoyed it, but The pressure's kind of off in a weird way because they're, they're not really listening to you. They're kind of listening to you, but they're not really listening to you. So they really wanna just sit there and just see what it is you're all about and how much you know. And they're always poking and prodding and like, how much does he know? And they start asking the questions like that you, they don't think you know the answers to, just to see, just to test you. And so I think that's what helps with the very first stage is like being on my toes and kind of ex— What questions could they possibly ask? And I quickly learned, you know, you have to be ready for anything. You have to know your content so well that when they try to poke you and, you know, test you, because this was even like pre-Google, this was way back in the day, you couldn't just look it up real quick.

Billy Sammons:

You had to know your content enough that you could answer any of the questions that they came across, because if they knew that you didn't know what you were doing, you kind of lost them a little bit. I mean, there's every once in a while you could say, well, I don't really know. But if that's your answer to a lot of the questions, you're gonna lose 'em. You're gonna, so you gotta at least know enough to stay with 'em.

Sara Lohse:

And I feel like it's kind of a good practice place because in all of our heads, like when we get onto a physical stage, we're in front of an audience, we're all thinking like everyone is judging us. Everyone is thinking the worst. They're all like, they all think we're stupid. But when you get in front of a room of teenagers in a high school, you're right, that's exactly what they're thinking.

Billy Sammons:

It's exactly it.

Sara Lohse:

They're like, this asshole is here again. I thought he could be sick and we'd get a sub that we can just play games or something. So you start off proving yourself right with all of these fears, but you get used to speaking in front of people that do think you're an idiot and want you to get off. So I feel like that's convenient.

Billy Sammons:

It is. And you have to keep them fairly entertained, right? Like, if you got up there and just started lecturing like Ben Stein style, like, you'd lose them too, right? So there's got to be some interaction interaction. There has to be some back and forth. You have to be able to like, you know, call on a few or have 'em do some kind of physical, like raising hands or standing up or clapping. There's gotta be something. And that really resonates with any stage if you think about that too. Like if you just sit there and just talk at people, like you're never gonna make an impact. Your speech is not gonna stick with 'em.

Billy Sammons:

You're not gonna make any difference into 'em at all and you're wasting your time. There has to be some kind of like interactive element to it. There has to be something where like you're entertaining 'em and educating 'em. So you have to know what you're doing, but at the same time you have to keep them moving, to keep them engaged with the content, just like teenagers. So like, uh, it really, it helped kind of set the stage when I started getting on more traditional stages. Like I was prepped and I had a pretty good idea of what I needed to do and how to keep people moving, how to keep people engaged. And so like, it really was like the very first testing ground for me, you know?

Sara Lohse:

And then when did you make that transition onto physical stages?

Billy Sammons:

Really? All right. So that's the second season, I believe. And you— I know you and I agree we're different seasons of our lives, right? We have different parts of our lives where that would be considered like my fall part of my life, right? And so I moved into like the real estate part. And so that was the second stage. And so I started getting in front of realtors and I started getting in front of our brokerage and I started teaching them strategies and I started teaching them lessons and lead generation and all these other different things that realtors needed to know. And I started doing that for my brokers and I started doing that in front of bigger audiences. And so that was the next phase. And I would say realtors probably have the same attention span as teenagers.

Billy Sammons:

I think that's a very similar group of people where like they'll tune you out after a few minutes, even though you, they know that the information you're about to give them works because you're doing it and it's helpful and it's engaging. You still have to keep them moving. You have to keep their attention span. So it really got me ready for those types of stages as well. And it was just prepped, ready to go, you know, so it wasn't that hard.

Sara Lohse:

And I mean, the attention span thing is true for everybody at this point. And we even— we hear it about like digital content. If you're doing a video, you have to hook them in the first 3 seconds. There's that book that came out like last year, the year before, called Hook Point that talked all about that. It was a really great book. And it's the same when you get on stage, like you have to hook them immediately. And everyone has their own way of doing that. Some people open with a joke, some people do a really bad job of it and just start talking about themselves.

Sara Lohse:

Like, so, um, some people start with like questions. And what is your way of hooking people from the beginning and getting them to pay attention?

Billy Sammons:

Oh, for me, um, depends on the scenario, right? There's lots of different ways. Usually I give them real-life examples, so I kind of bring them into my story. Um, I try to make that story relatable, so I need to know my audience, and I start with like the tension point. Right? Here's the problem we were having. And then you start getting into some of the solutions and some of the things that happened, usually a little bit of humor to it. And then how that changed me and how I became with the solutions there, there, there to here. And you know, so you, that's how it usually hook 'em is, you know, invite 'em into my story and, and get 'em engaged, try to relate to 'em. And so they can say to themselves, oh yeah, I, I also have a problem getting leads, or I also have a problem closing deals.

Billy Sammons:

I also have a problem. You know, this, that, and the other thing. And so they lean in a little more once you can hit them and relate to what they're doing. And then you show them the transformation. So they're like, you know, if he can do it, I mean, shit, if Billy can do it, I can do it. And so it makes it relatable to them too. And I tell them that throughout the speech, like, listen, I'm not a unicorn. I'm not like anything special.

Billy Sammons:

And I figured this out. You can figure this out too. And here's the way. So I usually do it through storytelling because, you know, back in my teaching day, I was actually an English teacher. So the whole story is kind of like ingrained in what I enjoy. And so that's typically the hook I use when I'm out there and talking to 'em.

Sara Lohse:

I love that. And I mean, you, you and I have talked about storytelling and you know, that is kind of where I live. And it makes me think of one of the presentations that I did at a conference. I was there talking about storytelling to build your brand and how you need to be telling your stories if you want people to feel a connection to you. And the way that I opened it, I just put my own logo just full screen and just asked so genuinely, like, looking at this, like, how does that make you feel? And I was just like, people just looked confused. And I'm like, if you're thinking absolutely nothing, then that is the correct answer because you have never seen this before. You don't know who I am, and that's not going to make you feel something. And that's why we need to move past just hiding behind that logo and become people and have those genuine connections.

Sara Lohse:

And that comes from storytelling. And the look on their face was like, oh good, I got it right, because they thought like— they were like, I missed something, there was a pre-assignment or something. And that one started it off pretty good.

Billy Sammons:

Nice.

Sara Lohse:

I like that one.

Billy Sammons:

Yeah.

Sara Lohse:

When you are getting on stage, because I know you like to do things that are interactive, you do kind of like the workshops.

Billy Sammons:

Yep.

Sara Lohse:

How are you getting booked for those? Are you getting booked? Are you doing them yourselves? Are you setting these up, um, like scheduling them and inviting people? Like, what is your method? Like, what's been working?

Billy Sammons:

Yeah, so for like those types of things, um, well, actually, you know what, it goes hand in hand, right? So I teach the marketing, the live local referral marketing. So I think the workshops and the videos I do with local business owners, those are the same strategy really. You find people that you, um, align with that have the same values as you do. Like you and I are gonna do one in the future. Like we're, we meshed really well. I teach referrals, you teach podcasting as a way to create referrals for yourself. I teach that through video. And so I've done ones with video producers.

Billy Sammons:

I'm doing one soon with a CRM guy, like people that are in line with your values. Once you know that audience, once you know who they are, you know, try to find a gift, something that I can give the audience that they're gonna need that meets their pain point. And I do the same thing with my local business videos. What is something they always need is marketing, promotion, content, things of that nature, right? And so you need more audience. I need more audience. We have an alignment. We've got one pain point that we share. So we're now aligned.

Billy Sammons:

We're going to collaborate. We're going to work together. Once we have those things in alignment, then I just reach out to people and say, listen, this is the thing we're going to do. You phrase it and word the workshop or the video in a way that people will be entertained or they Invite it into the story like we talked about a little bit earlier today. And then you just start sending it out like, hey Bob, I think this will be good for you. Hey Fred, I think this will be right for you. Hey Rita, you asked about referrals. I'm going to show you how to do it.

Billy Sammons:

Just jump into this workshop. Um, in regards to the local businesses, the way I do that is I do like a video commercial with them, right? And so once you're in alignment with the local business owner and you want to collaborate and become a referral partner with them, you sit down, do the quick video with them. You have that content, you start sharing it out to your audience because people want to know what's happening in their own community. They all have that ingrained interest, like, oh, is that a new food truck? Or what's going on with that brewery? Or I thought I saw a sign out front of the library. And you start just sending it out to people and reaching out and, you know, just natural collaborations. People just want to see what you're doing. They want to see that it, that it, it's a pain point that they need satisfied, and they want to just be part of the story because You know, it's fun, it's, uh, interesting. It helps them solve some of the problems they might have.

Billy Sammons:

And, and I guess it's just those simple basic strategies when I, and I don't think it's anything specific. I don't have a magic bullet for you. I just have the basics of human psychology. That's all I use.

Sara Lohse:

And your, your specialty is in referral marketing.

Billy Sammons:

Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Lohse:

Yeah. How could somebody use like referrals and that side to get themselves on stages and to grow as a speaker?

Billy Sammons:

Yeah, so I mean, if you're gonna use the get on stages, you have to decide on what stage you wanna get on. Like, who are you trying to collaborate with? All of my strategies start with you, your values, and your business. You need to know like who you're trying to get to. Then once you know who you're gonna get to, let's say you wanna meet up with a speaking coach or you wanna meet up with somebody who runs a speaking event, or then you just had to provide something. You have to have a give. You have to meet them at their pinpoint. What do they need? Most people need marketing and promotion. So if let's say we have, for example, somebody who runs a speaker's event and they want to help promote it, you're like, listen, I've got a podcast.

Billy Sammons:

Come on the podcast. I would love to be a speaker on your event. I will help you promote it. We can do this together. We can collaborate. And it's just that easy. You know, it's not that hard to just give with intentional. And the key would be to not give and then turn around and like, hey, I need you to buy my product.

Billy Sammons:

I need you to, you know, give me a donation. I need you to be a sponsor. You're not doing that per se. You're giving, you're helping them promote, you're doing something for them. You're meeting them at their pain point. You're adding value to their life. And that's really where the beginning of referral marketing is, is with the give. So hopefully that answered your question.

Billy Sammons:

I think I went around about, but I'm hopefully I nailed it.

Sara Lohse:

I'll take it.

Billy Sammons:

I'll take it. So if you were trying to get on somebody's stage, you need to find out what they need. What do they need? They need more marketing or do they need something? And then you reach out like, hey, listen, you need more marketing. I can help you with that. And that's kind of where you begin. You don't land gigs right away. I don't think that happens unless you're going to pay for them or if you're going to, you know, join a club or join a group. But if you're trying to do it organically, you need to reach out to who you— who aligns with you.

Billy Sammons:

And you need to give 'em something that they need, and then you just need to be, stay in touch and, you know, consistently reach out to them and continue adding value until like that connection's solidified.

Sara Lohse:

One of the like principles in marketing is find that pain point.

Billy Sammons:

Yeah.

Sara Lohse:

And push on it and make it have that feeling of urgency. How have you been able to identify like what someone's pain point is?

Billy Sammons:

So mine has been easy in the sense that I deal with a lot of local business owners and every single one of them have the same pain point, which is marketing. They all, they all need more marketing. They all need more promotion. They all need more butts in seats, more people coming through the doors. And so that's been a really easy cheat code. So when I talk to people about my referral systems, they're all, every time people are like, well, that's too simple. There's no way that works. And it does because everybody that's in a local business owner, like I know 40 or 50 local business owners in my community.

Billy Sammons:

We're all referral partners. We work with each other, we help each other out. And it's just by the same pain point that they need marketing help. And I just go to them and help 'em do a little quick video, do some content, do some things to help 'em out, and then stay in touch with 'em. And if they need people, even you and I, we, we exchange referrals, like the same concept. If the boxing studio needs a food truck, like they come to me because I know the people that do this and I know the people that do that. If, um, the lacrosse team needs some sponsor, like, oh, you know, I know the local lender's been looking for sponsors. Like you end up becoming kind of a middle person because you're giving and you're making connections and they see you as somebody they can trust because you're giving to them.

Billy Sammons:

You're meeting with their pain point, which is marketing and connections and more referrals. And as you become that middle person, like you just meet all the people you need to meet. It just almost not even magically, but magically happens. It just kind of through consistency.

Sara Lohse:

So if you had one piece of advice for somebody that wants to, uh, start speaking, what is that piece of advice?

Billy Sammons:

Oh, to start speaking, you need to get in front of people, get some reps, right? So I got in front of like teenagers, which I wouldn't advise doing that because teenagers are a little tough. But you know, start with video. 'Cause video, you don't necessarily need an audience right away. You can just do a video on your own and you're getting in front of people and you're getting practice and you're working on your speech and you're, you know, making it more concise and you're making adjustments. But I would say start doing videos. That is by far the easiest way to start getting in the reps that you're gonna need. And start getting some feedback. And if you wanna start doing longer ones, you know, start reaching out to people and say, listen, I wanna come talk to your group about this, this, and this.

Billy Sammons:

I'm not gonna charge you. Just wanna come in. I wanna talk to you people. I need to get reps. I need to get more practice. Um, but those two ways of just, you know, finding ways to get in front of people and just practice, practice, practice.

Sara Lohse:

I love the, that video advice because we always hear like, you gotta get in your reps. Yeah. But then it's one of those like, Okay, but how do I do that?

Billy Sammons:

Because how do I do that?

Sara Lohse:

You need the experience to get the experience. Yeah. You can't get booked on the stages until you've been booked on stages. And yeah, it's so true. Like we can create our own stages and if you start recording videos, you start doing webinars, you start doing podcasts. Yeah. All of these things, you're just creating your own stages and then you're able to use those A, as experience and getting more comfortable, but B, as examples and as social proof and as like put, um, sprinkling them into a speaker reel. And it's a way that you can do that without having to rely on that outside factor of someone needs to book me on a stage first.

Billy Sammons:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the key to that too is the uncomfortable, I need to watch it after I filmed it too. Most people are like, I hate the way I look. I hate the way I sound. I hate the way— well, if you're gonna be on stage, you need to get over it. 'Cause people see you when you go up on stage and they're gonna hear you when you're up on stage. So it's not gonna change.

Billy Sammons:

So record yourself, watch it over again and say, all right, you know what? I screwed up there. I'm saying, um, too much. Like there's things you can do when you rewatch it and you just have to, like, um, how many of the podcasts do you film? Do you go back and relisten to?

Sara Lohse:

These ones because I edit them because my team is busy and there you go. And I hate doing it. Uh, but usually I try to avoid it. Like I'll go, I'll speak on stage and somebody sends me a video and I'm like, thank you so much. Delete instantly.

Billy Sammons:

Yeah. Uh, I don't want to, but I mean, you've been doing it for a while. Do you do, has that always been the way? Like even from the get-go, like from step 1, step 2, even early on you didn't watch it? Oh yeah, either.

Sara Lohse:

And not out of like a, I nailed it, I don't need to see it more. It's more of like, I don't want to see that, I know I looked stupid. Just do it. It's, it's a lack of confidence, not an overconfidence.

Billy Sammons:

Oh, got it. Yeah, you know what, it's— yeah, so mine's the same way. So I grew up in— forever ago, like playing sports, and so we'd always film yourself shooting or to watch. So it's— I guess the reps were already there. I'm like, I'm used to myself filming myself doing the things to get better at it. And so I guess it was more of a natural, oh yeah, I'm speaking, I need to film this and rewatch it and relisten to myself. And I never had the self-conscious because I just didn't care enough. But, um, you got to do it.

Billy Sammons:

You got to rewatch. You got to hear yourself because it's the best way to make adjustments.

Sara Lohse:

I don't like this advice anymore. Not listening. Everyone else listen to him. I'm gonna—

Billy Sammons:

personally, you're not gonna do it.

Sara Lohse:

Everyone else listen. There's great advice.

Billy Sammons:

There's programs and stuff too. You can plug it in and get like AI feedback and stuff too. Not the GPTs, they just take the words, they're not any good. But if you go to like Feedback Academy and those places, they can toss it in there and it'll give you like, it'll watch your video and give you feedback if you wanna go that route. But there's definitely programs and things that will help you out.

Sara Lohse:

Interesting.

Billy Sammons:

Yeah.

Sara Lohse:

Well, that is all my questions and I think we are probably hitting around time. So if anybody wanted to learn more about referral marketing, learn more about you and what you're doing, where can they find you?

Billy Sammons:

Probably the website's the easiest because it has all the links and all the different things you can hop into and check out. And that's www.livelocalwarmmarketing.com. Did I have to do the www part? I think that's pretty much, that seemed like pretty redundant though. Just Live Local Warm Marketing.

Sara Lohse:

I'm pretty sure you only did two W's. So you might want to add in that third one.

Billy Sammons:

Third one? Try two, see what happens. See if the two works. I don't know. Maybe it'll be a magical passcode. You know, maybe it'll just open up a new internet somewhere that you didn't know about. Yeah, that's Live Local Warm Marketing.

Sara Lohse:

You'll find Live Local Warm Marketing, and I will also have that in the show notes.

Billy Sammons:

Cool.

Sara Lohse:

Don't forget the.com.

Billy Sammons:

Yeah,.com.

Sara Lohse:

Yeah, gotta have the W, all three W's, all three, uh, the https://.

Billy Sammons:

Oh yeah, you know, I've gotten to the point now like where Google just finishes your sentences for you, so I don't even like do this stuff anymore. Like it's It seems we're getting so lazy. You don't have to put all the things in there anymore.

Sara Lohse:

I get mad when I have to fill out a form and it says put in your website, and I do, and they're like, no, you need the HTTPS to set it all up.

Billy Sammons:

You know, I'll open up the website, I'll copy and paste it. I won't actually put the HTTP. I won't do it. I'll just copy and paste. I'm like, God, I am so lazy, but here we go.

Sara Lohse:

I always feel like I'm gonna make it wrong. I'm just— I'm gonna forget it's or a backslash, or I'll put a forward slash instead. I don't know, two W's instead of three. That's my most common. Yeah, it's so— you know what, I already hit W twice. I really have to hit it a third time.

Billy Sammons:

It knows where I'm going. It gets it. Like, I'm pretty sure it knows.

Sara Lohse:

Fill in the blank. Context clues. I want a website anyway.

Billy Sammons:

Awesome, awesome, awesome.

Sara Lohse:

Thank you so much, Billy, for being here, and thank you all for listening. If you want to hear more about how you can get booked on stages or use your stages to grow your business, come back next week for another My First Stage Story, and I'll talk to you then.

Billy Sammons:

Thanks for having me on.