Mastering Speaking, Storytelling, and Stage Presence with PodMatch Founder Alex Sanfilippo

Welcome back to my first stage, the podcast, where we talk to professional public speakers about how they got started speaking. And I am here with one of my favorite humans in the world. He is my pod match. And Alex Sanfilippo. He is the founder of Pod Match. He has been helping independent podcasters grow their podcast and monetize for years. He's one of the most respected names in podcasting, and I'm so happy to have him here. So, Alex, thanks for hanging out with us.

Sarah, thanks for having me. And I feel like I have to share that story of me becoming your pod Match. You becoming my pod match. We were at a conference in, I don't know where, somewhere in Houston. Houston. That's it. Yes. We were in Houston.

Thank you. We were in Houston. And you brought, like, this. You had, like, a, A booth set up, and. But you brought all this stuff to make bracelets and stuff like that. It was, like, really cool. And then you made one, and it said, will you be my pod match? And you gave it to me, and I was like, absolutely. Thank you so much.

So, so don't leave out the important detail of before I gave it to you, I asked your wife for permission.

Well, yes, you're right. That is an important detail. Thank you, Alicia, for that permission.

I, I, I, I would never, I would never do that without permission. I was like, I'm not hitting on him. It's just a really good pun. Can I, can I do this? And she's like, I'll allow it.

That sounds like Alicia. Yep.

But I feel like for the first, like, entire time I've known you, all I do is just embarrass myself in front of you, because the first time, one of the first times we met, you had invited me to speak on one of your summits. I sent you my presentation, the video, and then I never heard from you again. And then in my mind, it was because you hated it. You hate me, you never want to see me again, and I should just stop doing anything that I'm doing. So I see you at the next conference. I think it was podcast movement. And I am literally about to hide behind a trash can because I'm like, I can never show my face again. And you came up to me, you're like, oh, your thing was so great.

Thanks so much for sending it. And I'm just. You didn't use it. Apparently you had pushed me to the next one, but you didn't tell me. So I had spent about six months just thinking that you hate me. I'M stupid. Why am I doing this?

I actually remember that because that first interaction, it felt really awkward because I was like. I was like, oh, so good. And the reason we push it from the one that originally submitted for to the next one is we had almost all the speakers picked. But your talk was so good that I wanted to be one of the. Have one of the key spots. So I just told the team, like, hey, just push this one back, because it's really good. I wanted to have, like, one of the premium spots so everyone can hear Sarah. And then I.

My fault, totally. The team's like, okay, cool. So then you're going to tell. Sarah's like, yeah, yeah, sure. And then I never reached out to you. So nice to see in person. I'm like, sarah, you're amazing. And you're like, oh, what the.

Like, the. The roster of speakers comes out and I'm not on it. I'm just like, okay. That's how I know that he changed his mind and he hates me and I'm just gonna stop doing anything and never show my face again and hide behind trash cans.

We've cleared the air now, though. We're good, right?

Yeah.

Okay. We're here today. We're here today. That's probably good enough for everybody, right?

We've moved past it. You are my pod match forever. And I. I forgive you, but no, there's. There are so many times where I'm just like, I just need to stop talking to him because I just keep embarrassing myself.

I kind of love that. That's great.

It's fine. But speaking of speaking, great segue. Thank you. I tried really hard. This is my first stage, and I know you have been on many stages, and what was the first one? How to get started.

Okay, so dates are a little tough for me with this, but I actually started off by speaking at part of a really big aerospace organization. And so I was speaking in front of teams there a lot, and I actually got sent to a Dale Carnegie leadership speaking thing. It was like eight weeks. And I learned really well to speak in front of teams, but the teams are people like that were my managers that I knew. And so I don't really. I don't really count that, but I will give it credit because it taught me a lot of the tactics for keeping people engaged. And. But the room was easier because I was paying the room.

It was actually a WordPress event. At that point, I'd gotten into doing some blogging. I didn't know much about the tech side of WordPress, but I understood how to write a coherent blog post in a way that search engines actually enjoyed it. Right. They would actually rank it somewhere. And so that was my first real speaking gig where I had like a full presentation. I didn't know the room and it was really cool. I'll never forget, I was backstage and Alicia was.

My wife was back there with me and. And I just told her. I was like, I was like, I don't know how I got here. I was like, in all honesty, I have no idea. Like, what. Like, these people are professionals. I've like, watched all them on YouTube. I've seen them on all the.

The instructions on how to use WordPress. Like, I've asked some of them questions, but I'm about to speak in front of all of them and it actually went really well. I mean, I was very nervous and if I rewatch it today, I'd probably cringe a little. But it was one of those things that, like, I felt really good when I ended. I got really great feedback and so many people said, hey, you're like the guy who knows about blogging in the WordPress world now, like from that one stage, like, immediately hearing that. And granted, you know, it was a room full of nerds, right? They're all developers and coders at that point, because that was the only way to use WordPress. But it was really a great experience and I believe fully set me in motion. This idea of being someone who trains around the idea of content creation.

And so I look back at that first stage is a really great experience for me.

And then how did you switch over from, like, blogging to podcasting? Cause there, I mean, there are definitely ties, but, like, what was that journey for you?

Yeah, so I continued using WordPress, built some friends in the space that kind of helped me keep a website going. And I eventually learned how to do my own website. And then I already had the blog part of it down. Right. And so. So I was writing a lot, but I found that I don't. I don't know how to describe it other than the fact that I was listening to podcast and I found that the one dimensional of just writing wasn't enough for me anymore. Like, I wanted more.

And so I started a podcast and I just started making really good blog posts. This is before the days of like transcription services or AI or anything like that, right? So, like, it was actually me creating a really great blog post that had a complimenting podcast episode to go with it, and I learned how to embed it and do all that stuff. Again, this is earlier and show my age here a bit with all this, but it was. It was one. I was one of the few people, I believe, that was doing that at that time. And so my speaking just kind of followed what I was actually doing. And so my speaking was about blogging, and then it was more general content creation, which ended up really segueing into what became my. My primary passion, which was podcasting.

And so I went from speaking all these podcasts or, Sorry, all these WordPress events to speaking at some. Some content conferences, I suppose. I don't even know what to call them. Like, maybe they're more specific towards blogging and stuff like that to segueing over to actually talking about podcasting. And that first one was actually a conference that you and I have both attended many times, but PodFest. And it was actually really funny the first time. I didn't know there was WordPress. Sorry, I didn't know that there was podcasting conferences, Sarah.

I had literally no clue. And one of my friends was making fun of me because I was a nerd, I guess, because I was talking about content. He goes, hey, you're going to go to that dorky podcasting conference in Orlando, Florida. I was like, nah, there's not a podcasting conference. And he looks at him, he's like, yeah, it's right here. I was like, no way. And so I sent an email in. It was a smaller, at that point by email to Chris Kurmitz, the guy who runs it directly, mutual friend of ours.

And I was like, hey, would love to attend. I don't know if you are looking for speakers or anything like that. I didn't hear back for like a week. And then out of nowhere, I get a text message I included my phone number on. He goes, hey, would you be up for doing a Pecha Kucha talk? And to me, I don't know what pechacucha means to this day, but, like, chit chat, what does it mean?

Chit chat, chit chat.

Well, it sounded inappropriate. I was scared to put it into any search engine. You know, I'm like, what am I about to get? What am I to look up. Anyway, I go to the PodFest website and then there's a Pecha Kucha page and it just has a big picture of me on it and that's it. And so I text them back. I'm like, yeah, I guess. Guess I'm all signed up and ready to go. You know, like.

And I'll tell you what, that was my introduction to speaking at the podcasting side of things, which is all. That's all I do now is just podcast podcasting. But it was really funny when I was there. It. Well, an episode of your podcast. This, this show, my first stage actually reminded me of that experience. It was actually Melissa Cohen Cohen. Thank you.

I always mess up her last name. She was about LinkedIn leveraging LinkedIn top voices as a speaker. But beyond that, she said something I thought was really important. She said it's best to just be called first when you're in a room of people that you're going to speak, so you can just get out of the way so you're not sitting there nervous. I was sitting there so nervous. I was not the first one called. I was one of the last ones called. I'm sitting there sweating, giving myself way too much time to give a five minute talk, which to this day is still the most intimidating form of speaking I think I've ever done.

I won't do it.

Yeah. Oh, I think I did okay. But I told Chris, I'm like, I would love to come back and speak, but I don't want to do that again. And to this day I'm still like, no, thank you. Right. Like, I'll take a 30 minute block. But anyway, that's a full segue of kind of how I started doing some, some WordPress stuff and ultimately ended up in the. The speaking space with podcasters.

I actually turned down pechacucha at this last one. I was so late on getting my submission in to speak. And so they're like, we all we've got left is like Pecha Kucha spots. I'm like, okay, no thank you. And it's like I used to kind of think of, of the pechacca as like entry level. Like this is like the thing that's you the first time speakers do like, you have to be a pro to do Pechacucha. Like, I was wrong and I will admit it because I like, I get on stage and I can have 30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour, it doesn't matter. I have no idea what's going to come out of my mouth.

The moment I step on that stage. And sometimes it's good things, sometimes it's probably not. But for Patrick Kucha, you have five minutes. Your slides are preset, kind of like a TED Talk, and you have to be able to follow the slides in perfect timing because they're moving for you, and you only have five minutes. No, it takes me five minutes to just remember my name. Like, no, I cannot do that.

And you know Maxwell Ivey? Do you know who that is? Goes by the blind blogger.

Yes, the blind.

Yeah, he went right before.

I didn't want to say the blind guy.

Yeah, the blind blogger. That's what he. That's his tagline. He went right before me when I did the pechacucha, and he crushed it, and that made me even more nervous. I'm like, he doesn't see his slides. And I even told him afterwards. I'm like, man, I hope. I hope this isn't inappropriate.

I'm like, how'd you stay on track with your slides? Like, I just knew my talk. I was like, dude, I kept on turning around to see where. Where my slides were at so I could keep up. I'm like, I don't know how you did it. It was, again, super intimidating. But you're right. The Pecha Kucha. I think some people.

It's five minutes, and people were like, oh, it's not a big deal, but it really is. Like, to. To do a really good one is. Takes a lot of experience, a lot of. I mean, a lot of everything when it comes to being a speaker, you know?

Like, I almost want to try it just to see if I could do it.

You and me, both of us.

Yeah.

Oh, my God. One after another. Who goes first?

Or we can just do one together. Can we do it? Co. Can you.

Do they. Do they allow that?

I don't know. I was thinking two and a half minutes is less scary than five. I don't know.

Okay, but. So I know I've brought this up before, probably on this show, but I've stopped being asked to speak at your events because I always. You have 12 minutes. And I'm just like, okay, cool. Here's an hour and a half worth of content that I just talked really fast and fit it into 12 minutes. How much content do you think I could put into five minutes?

Well, you can't edit there, so I don't know. But you can talk. You and I can both talk fast. You can probably get a solid 20 minutes. I'd say at your pace.

I think so, yeah. The only problem is, like, people are going to watch it live. Like, I would watch the comments of people watching me speak at your events, and it's all like, yeah, can I get the recording so I could watch this at like 1/4 time? Because I'm, I'm lost.

This is one of the reasons I like you, though. I'm the same way. I have to remind. And actually, I'd say it's my biggest flaw as a communicator. Not just podcasts, but also on stages. Is my brain like yours? It processes so quick. We know our craft so well. We forget that people that are hearing it need that.

They need that pause so they can process it. But we are just like, hey, I've got five hours of stuff to tell you in 30 minutes. Like, and we're just gonna go for it. I mean, that is the, the biggest thing for me to try to overcome is to, to stop, to let the pause happen, to slow down a little bit, to watch people's faces and say, okay, I'm moving too quick. Right. I need to adjust in real time. And I think that's what it takes to be a true professional when it comes to being a speaker. And I am actively working on that.

I'm not there yet, but I'm closer than I was yesterday.

I mean, if we're talking about flaws, my list is pretty big. But one is I don't know how to do anything in moderation. So it's like, you want me to talk about this, that's fine. But here's all the backstory stuff that I need them to know first. And then if they're going to know this, they might as well know this stuff too, because they can do this too while they're doing that. So here's my one topic, and here's the 14 ancillary topics, and I'm just gonna give you all of them.

You're a metaverse speaker is what you are.

I am. Nonsense. And then my other. I have adhd and I didn't realize that this was an ADHD thing until recently. We over explain ourselves because we have to make sure that people understand us. And I thought I'm just a rambler and I just ramble. But no, that's an ADHD thing, is that I'm going to explain it and then explain it again and then explain it 14 more times so that there's 0% chance that you didn't get it. Not good as a speaker.

Well, so maybe I'm a little slow, but I appreciate that. I need. I've heard you talk. I'm like, cool. Oh, I get it now, right? Like, the first time you're like, huh? So I appreciate that. Maybe that's not the best advice, but it helps me a little bit.

You are my ideal audience.

Okay, great.

I'm just gonna have you front row anytime I talk. Like, does. This is for Alex. This. This is for Alex.

That's great.

You mentioned before that you did the Carnegie speaker thing and you paid to do that and learn the stuff. So now for free, we get to benefit from it. What were some of those things that you said that you learned some key tactics as a speaker for engaging your audience and all of that. What were some that you remember that you've actually used?

Well, it's counter to what you just said, but explain things one time and find a really good story that relates to it is, like, kind of the first thing. Sorry. I mean, listen, you asked. That's like the number one thing. They're like. They're like, whatever is you're going to talk about. Like, have a story that goes with it and then just. Just share that one time, leave a pause, and then continue your talk.

And so one of the things they had me do was they had me talk about a how to rub the shine out of a quarter, which is, like, really weird. I didn't know. I didn't even know you could do that. But like a brand new quarter, if you rub it enough times, like with a cloth, it'll eventually, like, take the shine off of it. And so I had a quarter in a rag, and I was supposed to explain that for two minutes without repeating myself. And I remember being like, this is the dumbest thing I've ever done. But I actually didn't even know what I was talking about. They're like, hey, learn it real quick.

And like, this was real time in a room, like, and do it. And so I was able to give, like, a demonstration. I'm like, you know, I actually found this quarter. I was able to kind of like explain a story and be like. And if you just take five minutes and you go through and do this, it can be kind of fun if you're doing something else, because it doesn't take a lot of brain power, right? Just explain it that way and be like, at the end, you end with this. And it was kind of like everyone just, like, claps, you know, it was like a training thing. But I just remember being like, okay, because in my head, I'm like, two minutes. I want to be like, watch.

Done. And it's like, no, that. That wasn't a good present. That wasn't a talk you just showed. That was a demonstration, right? So that was kind of the big thing was like, hey, share your. Share your story, right? Like something that can grab people. Hey, I found this. Or this is what I learned.

And here's how. Here's what I did with it. Here's some tactics involved. And done. And so in two minutes, I was able to wrap up a pretty good story. And I remember they would give out, like, award pens if you gave a good talk. And that was one that, like, I was nominated for. Like, I didn't win that week, but they gave me every week.

But I was like, I don't want to win a pen for giving a good talk about rubbing the shine out of a quarter. Right. But that was like the biggest. Probably one of the biggest takeaways was being able to have something that people can remember relating to the story and then being able to explain it one time all the way through in a way that's really coherent. So we can be like. I get that right. Simple, coherent, and fast. That was my biggest takeaway from doing that.

That's the first thing that made me think of is like, the. When you are applying for, like a sales job, and they're like, sell me this pen. And it's like, it's your pen already. So I would never be able to do that. Like, let me steal it first. But then Sammy Kinison was on a few episodes ago, and she is a TEDx event organizer and one of her favorite ever TEDx speakers. He. His whole TEDx talk was how to dry your hands.

How to dry your hands. Sorry.

How to dry your hands. And she's like, it's so good. And when. If we have an event where everyone's talk is really heavy, I'll just play that one to break it up. And it's usually at people's favorite of the day. I feel like that has the same energy.

It does. Oh, for sure.

And I still haven't watched it, and

I don't know if I'll watch it either, but it sounds fairly interesting.

I. I just keep forgetting. I know I need to watch it.

You know, this. This makes me think that the next thing they talked about because you're talking about washing your hands is to actually use your hands. And I've had to. I've. I've had.

Oh, like, while you're speaking.

While you're While you're speaking, like, move around. And I'm very.

What a good segue.

Thanks. Yeah, it was great. Better than the segue we had earlier, I think. I'm just kidding. Yours was great. Speaking of speaking, so the. That actually, like, I'm Italian, and so when I'm. My family is super animated.

We move our hands, everything. I hit the microphone 247 now, but at first, I don't know why. It's like, who I was as a person didn't translate well on a stage. And I stood there stiff as could be, and that was like, the biggest thing that had to break. Or I just, like, kind of played with my hands, like, had them folded up. And there's. There's a really. There's an excellent book called Captivated or Captivate, maybe Vanessa Van Edwards.

And she talks a lot about, like, the way that we use our hands. And one of the first ways you establish trust with people is show them your hands. So your hands are in your pockets, behind you. Anything like that? Yeah, jazz hands. That's what we can do. Right. But if your hands are just kind of out of the. Out of view, then it immediately builds a little bit of distrust.

And at first I was kind of like, I don't know about that.

You're hiding.

People's got to cave man days. Like, they could have a weapon. I was like, I don't know. And then I started realizing that when I was out in public and somebody walking out their hands in their pockets, my brain would immediately go to, I wonder what. I wonder what's in their hand. Why is it in their pockets? You know, like. Or if they kind of, like, have a hoodie on. They got their hands inside them.

Like, I wonder if they have, like, a knife or a gun in there. Right? And listen, I don't watch movies. I've never seen any, like, crime stuff, so my head has no reason to go there. The fact that there is some programming, but when you see somebody's hands and they kind of show their hands, they move around a little bit, you immediately feel like this person's got nothing to hide. So it builds this layer of trust. And for me, that was one of the biggest things I had to break as a communicator, as a speaker, was actually using my hands in a way that made sense with what I was saying, while also allowing myself just to beat my natural self, which is very animated.

Okay, so we've got. Use your hands wisely. We've got. Tell stories and don't over explain things. The way that I do. I feel like every time I bring someone on here, they give an advice that is exactly the opposite of what I do, and that's why I am the host and not the guest.

You know what? You know what? With that, can I just go into a different. Can I take a different direction here? Is that all right?

You may listen.

Like, I didn't learn this from. From any of my training. I didn't lear this from anybody who's talk about speaking. I learned this actually through podcasting as a guest, specifically. Just double down on what makes you unique. The reality is there's no right or wrong answer, and especially in podcasting. Sarah, you know this. Anyone who's listening to this, this show, they aren't like, sarah's so disappointing every week.

Like, they're not saying that they're here because they like the uniqueness that you bring. They like the. The approach that you take. That's unique. That's different. So they're here because they like you. I'm the bonus today, right? And as long as I can somehow mirror, match the energy that you bring and the pace of talking, I can maybe match. But that's it, right? Like, if I can do that, then people are going to be happy.

They're going to show up. And so to me, like, when I started podcasting specifically as a guest, it allowed. It gave me the freedom to break the rules. And so, like, I am, I would consider myself an unconventional speaker at this point. I don't follow all the best advice, and some of the things I just shared, those are good for me. As someone who goes off on tangents, it's good for me to have one story, follow it all the way through, use my hands, because naturally, on stage, for some reason, I kind of hide a little bit, right? But beyond that, man, every time I'm speaking, you are like, wow, you did something really different. You know, like, you asked the audience halfway through if they had any questions like, who does that? Or your slides are super, super plain. Like, you barely even use them.

Everyone's supposed to have, like, all these detailed slides, and you didn't do that, right? Like, all these different things come up. Because I just doubled down on what makes me unique. And I hope that someone in the room was like, I like this guy, and the rest of them, like, at the end of the day, what am I going to do? Trick them into thinking I'm great when the reality is they're never going to like my personality? And so I think that for me, like, it's great that you're like, I don't do any of these things that everyone talks about. I think, once again, it's what makes. Because you fill a room when you speak, because people are like, I like Sarah's energy. I like her vibe. It reminds me of me, or it reminds me of, I don't know, something more fun than what everyone else is doing in the other rooms, which I

can see that usually being a good thing, except for the one time I went to speak at a real estate conference, thinking I was supposed to be speaking to, like, real estate agents about how to use podcasting. But instead, they put me in a room of, like, PhDs that are learning, wanting to know more about, like, research and stuff. And every other speaker in that room had Word documents as slides, and I had pink sparkles, and they were not amused. You know, they were like, one of these things does not belong here and get rid of it.

You know, Being in the right room is important, though, isn't it? Right? Like, I think that that matters a lot. And actually that I think that that's an important point for speakers. Like, don't. Don't accept every opportunity to speak. Just like I don't accept every opportunity to be a guest on podcast. I don't accept everyone to be a guest on my show. Like, we've got to pick the right room where our energy is going to naturally flow, because if not, you do enough of that, you kind of. You beat yourself up into a box and you start changing.

And so for me, like, I. I say no to speaking opportunities all the time because I know the way I show up, and when I look at what they're doing, especially to your point, like, I got invited to speak at, like, a. I can't remember what it's called, but it's like a. It's a university that puts on this, like, smart guy, smart lady conference. And I'm like, listen, y', all, you're. I just said, y', all, you're not going to like me there, right? Like, it's. I'm not going to be a good fit for this, and I'm not selling myself short. I just know that I'm not going to have fun.

I'm probably not going to be the right fit. It's probably going to be mediocre at best. So why don't I go somewhere where I know, hey, it's going to be really good, and people are going to love it? That's the stage I want to be on.

I was at an event and Two of the, like, main speakers said y' all while they were talking. And both of them stopped and were like, my mother just rolled over in her grave because I said y'. All. Meanwhile, I was in the back, and I had a. Basically, like, a nameplate necklace, but instead of my name, it literally said y'. All. And I was wearing it at that moment. And I'm like, all right, so perhaps not my people.

Perhaps I should not speak. And if I do have to speak here, I'm going to be very careful and not say y', all, because apparently that's frowned on.

You were walking around holding, like, you know, talking about weird hand placement. You're walking around just holding. Holding, like, don't look. Holding your neckline, right? And people are like, what's wrong with her?

Be like, don't look at it.

Nothing. This is just where I keep my hands.

Yes. And I'm wearing a necklace that says, use space. All right. Or I'm from New York, so I guess I would be like, you guys. Apparently we say that. I've always said y', all, but I. I feel like it is really important to know what room. Do you have any advice or, like, ways that you have kind of sussed out if it's going to be your room or not?

I always start with the organizers because the energy kind of stems from them. And so, example, there's actually conferences in podcasting I don't speak at because the vibe I get from the organizers is not. It's not the same energy. I'm going to show up with just

like, excuse me, drop names. Which one?

Oh, come on. We're not going to do that, are we? You're going to edit this out? I'm just going to tell myself, you're going to edit this out. Podcast show London, specifically. Right now, every time. The organizers, I'm down to sponsor, but what I'm not down for is getting a stage because I sponsored. I want to earn my space. And they straight up said, hey, you pay this much money until you get a speaking slot. I'm like, so you tell me your speakers are going to suck.

They just have money, right? And, like, I actually called out on that. And they're like. They're like, we don't care about that. I was like, fine. I was like, if that's what you want. I'm like, that's not my conference. Like, I'm going to go where I've earned the spot because I'm actually a good communicator and can serve people. And so I'm not talking bad.

Like, if that's their approach, by the way, that's fine. I just know that's not my people. That's not the energy I want to bring. I will. I'm fine to sponsor, but I'm not fine for paying to speak somewhere. I want to earn that spot. And there have been conferences where, where I've just turned it down because of that. And, like, that's just one example.

Again, no shade, that's fine. If that is their tactic, that's the way they want to do it, that's fine. But for me, that's like one of the energy things I look for. But beyond that, it's also, if it's like, hey, like, can we become some sort of affiliate beforehand? Or can we do this? If there's anything that feels like this is gonna be strictly transactional, I'm out. But beyond that, like, I already shared. Like, it seems like it's super smart, super educated people. They're gonna expect, like a PhD level talk. Like, that's not me.

I'm. I'm scrappy, I'm quick, I'm gonna make jokes along the way. I'm gonna fumble over my words. I'm gonna have a really good time. And that's the energy I look for. I look for the conference, the organizer. It's like, we have so much fun. Like, this community is like a family.

Like, as soon as I hear those words, I'm like, I'm in for that, right? And so that's the first way I identify it. Beyond that, if I can look at any past sessions, I know a lot of these events are closed these days, so you can't really check that. I'll go to their social media, I'll talk to a past speaker, I'll see if I know any other speaker. If I know another speaker, I'll ask them for their experience. But I try to do my due diligence. And I know making it sound like it takes a long time. This takes 10 minutes to do, right? It's just, it's just a little initial, like, recon to see, okay, like, what am I potentially going to commit to, or if I'm the one reaching out. Like, I might spend a little bit more time saying, okay, before I reach out, let me make sure this is the right room.

I've spoken in some really wrong rooms and I've learned this the hard way. And typically, I'm really unhappy with my performance at those spaces. Not because I walk in with the wrong mindset or attitude. It just reinforces the fact that, like, I don't belong here. No one belongs everywhere. And so it's okay. I'm not like putting a pity party myself. Like, I just don't belong in some rooms.

And that's okay. The more you can learn to know those and show up in the right ones though, the better.

The first time, because I used to work in finance, I worked in like wealth management and I left the industry because of how much I like the pressure I was putting on myself to be a financial professional and make everything blues and grays and corporate and boring, and I couldn't do it. And the first time that I was speaking at a finance conference after leaving the industry, it was so tempting to go back to pretending I'm a finance professional. Like, I brought the monkey suit. Like, I haven't worn a blazer except for my one pink blazer that I wear because it's pink. Like, I haven't worn a blazer in years. I don't wear like suit pants and the pointy toed shoes. Like, I can't do it. It's just not me.

But I brought them and I put them on that morning and I just looked at myself and I'm like, I can't. And I changed into jeans and a leather jacket and I went and spoke in that. And I completely forgot that in my slides for that presentation, there was an entire slide about authenticity and showing up as yourself. And when that came up, I was like, I'm gonna tell y' all a quick story. And just told them that. And people were like, actually really impressed that I didn't do what I thought was expected of me. And I had someone book a call with me just to thank me for showing up authentically because she's like, we see the super professional polished people at these conferences. You're the first time, like, it was a breath of fresh air.

That's, that's such a. I love that because I think that that's what comes down to at the end of the day is authenticity. Like, is the person on stage the person to get, if I get to meet them? And unfortunately, too many times it's not the case. The speaker that you've, you've heard, that's so dynamic, so engaging. You talk to them like, hey, what's up? Yeah, no, I'm an introvert. Leave me alone. Right? Like, and that's kind of what you get. But the fact that you show up so authentic that you just admitted to the fact that, like, I wore a different outfit and Then I forgot about this slide.

Right? Like, I imagine the whole room was like, respect, respect earned, Right? It's weird because inside our voice in our head and our chest says, people are not going to like this about you. Right? But the reality is people love that. I mean, more than anything is just being yourself. And in everything I do, like, as a podcast host, a podcast guest, a speaker on stage, even the way I still write copy, I want you to get the real me. If you meet me in person, I'll be like, wow, this is exactly what I expected. Right? Like, that's what I want you to say. And I'll be like, oh, that Alex guy, who. He's.

He's something else, right? Like, I don't want you to say that. And so I love that you have, like, that. That story should be shared all the time. Sarah, that's amazing.

I think it's in my book actually, too. I think I talk about it and. But there. Then there was the one moment during that same presentation that I was too much myself because the photographer was, like, taking photos and he was super close, and he knelt down to take a photo, like, going up, and I just stopped my presentation. I was like, that's not my angle. Please don't do that again.

I think people love that. Come on.

That was supposed to be an inside thought that became an outside thought, but for the most part, yeah, no, be myself.

Yeah. A little filter is good. A little polish, right? That goes a long way.

It was a long time ago. I would still upset it to this day. It's a bad angle. I'm sorry, just. What was he thinking? But. And how have you been using stages? Because I know you speak at a lot of conferences. I know you speak at podcast conferences. I assume you speak at some things outside of the podcast space too.

Is there anything that you're doing to use those opportunities to grow your business?

Yeah, I. I always try to have a very similar call to action at all these things. First off, I make sure it relates to. To what my talk is about and also what the. Who. Who's there. The audience that's there. Right.

But then ultimately bring people back to, like, Pod Match being my company. Like, I want to bring people back to that. And so I don't always have, like, a. A sales pitch at the end of my talk a lot, but we'll have, like, the QR code and stuff, and sometimes I'll leave that up at the very end, but often if I know it's like a room where I. I know that they're gonna be very interested in data, right? If this is like a data driven room, then somewhere during my talk, I'll be like, hey, I'm gonna reference some statistics right now. But on the screen is a QR code and a or link that you can write down. They'll take you to a monthly report that I do about the podcasting industry. And, like, that's my whole call to action.

I'll just leave it at be like, leave it up for a second. I see some of y' all taking pictures. If it's like a room that you can do that type of thing in, right? Let them take pictures. And then I move on. And there's no other call to action. It's just all value, just all service. And so for me, I do make sure that I'm strategic to mention what is going to make the most sense for that room. And at the end be like, and by the way, you can.

You can sign up for Pod Match right now when. And the reality is they might not be ready for that yet, right? It might be better for me to give them a course, a guide. One of my quizzes is just a link to a podcast episode of mine that might be really good for that room, right? It's about being really strategic and mentioning it where it makes the most sense. Because I think that most people are very used to the talks ending, and now here it comes, right? Like in podcasting, it's similar. Almost everything we do. The call to action at a blog post is at the very end, right? And so I'm okay with wherever that hot point is. It might be, like, slightly going off topic, but might pique their interest, I think, sharing it at that point. And so I've just tried to get really strategic with it, and it's.

It's actually worked really well for me to do it that way.

I think the most important piece of that strategy, though, is, like, what you said and what your shirt says right now is lead with value. Because anytime you do anything, your goal is to offer value. You've never done anything where your goal was to get something. And I actually got really angry very recently because you hosted a town hall about podcast guesting, and you had to give a sales pitch, and you spent two minutes setting up the sales pitch about how uncomfortable you are doing sales pitches, and then you did it, but the sales pitch was still like, here's how you can use my product to make money for you. And there were a few people in the comments that were complaining about it being a Sales pitch. I was ready to throw hands. I was going to like, call Alicia and be like, hi, how can I be put on stage right now so I can yell at these people for bullying Alex? Like, I was so mad because it's like, sometimes like sales pitches are necessary. Like, you do have to promote your own business.

But even when you are promoting your business, you're promoting it in a way that is meant to, to like, give the value to the listener and not you. And I know you were strategic about that and I know you were doing it in a way that's like, hopefully if they do this, they benefit from it the most. And I was, I was gonna fight.

Thank you for having my back. I appreciate that. Yeah, that was, that wasn't one of those uncomfortable things. But to your point, it is everyone listening. My first stage, right? These are people that are wanting to land more stages or maybe even land their first stage. It is important to have a direction for yourself in mind, right? Like, I think that just, I don't know if there's any great advice for how to do this. Well, because it has to flow off your tongue, right? It's gotta roll. It's gotta roll off your tongue.

And the reality is it's, it takes a little bit of time to get comfortable with this. And for me, like, it's. I'm years into speaking at this point and it's still uncomfortable for me. But I'll tell you what, if I remember the words, like I, I do have em on a shirt for the reason I remind myself, lead with value. If I'm going to share something that's going to benefit me, I need to also know for a fact that it's going to add more value than, Than value, value. More value to them than to me, right? It's got to be able to serve them above myself. And so I just have done my best to do that. Remind myself that, like, hey, I got into business to take care of people and I need to have confidence in the fact that it's okay to mention it.

And I don't have great advice for how to do that right away because I can tell you, my first 10 times I talked on stage, my sales pitch, part of it was probably offer. I was like, do this if you want, but if not, bye, see ya. And I probably ran off stage, right? Like, but I've gotten to the point now where like, I have the confidence to know, you know what, hey, this is what this room needs. And I am one of a few options for you. And here's what I have. Right. And just get really confident in the value that you're able to add to somebody. But that's again, for me, probably been one of the toughest parts.

Overall, I think it's. This is something I talk a lot about with podcasters, but it actually is very relevant to speakers. Like, if you are about to get on stage or you're planning out a stage to. To be on, ask yourself, like, why you're doing this. Like, why are you going to get on stage? And if the answer is, because I need to get. Bring in clients, like, I need to sell my product, I need to sell anything, don't get on stage. Like, that is not a reason to have a platform. And like, when I talk to podcasters and I ask like, what's.

Why do you want a podcast? And they say, so I can monetize it or so I can bring in sponsors. I could sell my course, I could build my business. I'm like, I'm not working with you on your podcast until you change that answer. Like, your answer has to be to offer value to other people, to help people understand this, to teach this. The rest of it is like, secondhand. Like, that will come naturally if you do the first part correctly. If you offer that value, you will get something back. If your only goal is to get something, you can.

Like, it's like you said with the speakers that pay to be on the stage, you could tell they paid to be up there. They're not doing anything but trying to sell.

Yeah, that's. It seems in the whole room knows it. Like, that's the thing. Like, even if we're really good at selling stuff, like, people can see the core of another person so quick. They can, they can feel the authenticity versus the, like, ah, there's something, something's coming, right? Like, we've all, we've all got that, right? Like, that's not just a skill that, that we have today that are hearing this right. Everyone seems to have that. And yeah, it's a matter of, of showing up with the right heart. And yes, listen, you getting something for yourself out of it, that should happen.

That's how you keep on going on stages, right? So you keep the lights on. It's important. That's the byproduct of showing up the value that you add, the way that you serve people, what you're going to do for somebody else. And that, that's why I've learned to really think about purpose is internal and external. My internal purpose. Keep the lights on, provide A great life for my family. Right. External purpose is to help make the world a better place through podcasting.

And so my primary objective is to do that external purpose because it's a byproduct. The internal purpose will take care of itself. Right. And so for me, I just stay focused on how do I make podcasting better for guests and hosts? What do I do to make that happen? And it seems like the better I get at that, the more I tend to get paid. And it just works that way. I'm selling less than I ever have, and I do it more naturally than I ever have because I'm just focused on the primary, that external purpose that I have. And so I think that when you can show up on stage and do that really well, people can feel it. They can see it.

It's the soggy sandwich principle.

I don't know that. I'm sorry. The soggy sandwich.

I always forget that that's not a real thing.

Okay, cool. I'm making sure. I was about to start looking up. I'm like, how have I missed this? I haven't missed it. It's not a real thing.

I said this on a podcast once. I think it was when I hosted Branded, and everyone just stopped and stared at me. My grandfather, or my great grandfather had a saying that when you lay your breads upon the waters, they come back to you in sandwiches. Basically, if you give, you get more back. And. But then my sister tried to explain this saying when she was a little inebriated, and she couldn't remember what it was and just started saying something about soggy sandwiches. So now anytime that comes up, my first thought is, like, soggy sandwiches. It's a soggy sandwich principle.

And I. That needs to become a thing. Like, we need to make fetch happen so that people stop looking at me like I'm crazy when I say it. But it makes sense.

Yeah, it does. And you say enough times, people get it. Just keep it going. Sarah, you're gonna. That's what your pechacucha talk is about. All right, that's it.

Yes. Chris, are you listening? I'm going to do pechacucha about sake sandwiches. Cool. Anywho, I don't have a good segue. Like I ever do. Any last piece of advice to people who want to get started on stages or get on bigger stages or use stages in any way?

Yeah, I actually think it goes along with what we just shared at the end is being able to sell without sounding salesy. Cause that's one of the most difficult parts for me. And actually it's something that you shared. It was referenced earlier in this conversation about how Sarah was hiding behind a trash can because she didn't get to talk on my stage when in reality I was just giving her a better spot. So I want everyone to go actually listen or watch that. So you can listen to it or watch it. I think it's like 12 or 14 minutes and it's how to sell without sounding salesy. And I think it's in my mind one of the best trainings I ever heard on it.

So again, it's condensed like a TEDx talk. If you go to podmatch.com ep207 podmatch.com ep207 and hopefully Sarah will link to it in the show notes as well. I don't mean to put words in your mouth. I'm a podcast. I can't help it.

I'll do it.

That'll help you a lot. I think that that's the next step after hearing this is to figure out that tactic because the rest is showing up authentically, being yourself in it. I think we did a good job explaining that. So it's really figuring out that last

piece of the puzzle, especially because both of us are over explainers. So you know what? We nailed it.

Yep.

How can people find out more about you and what you're doing and Pod Match and all the great stuff?

Yeah. If you go to that same spot podmatch.comep207 the links are all there. You'll find me every everywhere you go on that page. So I try to do a good job being present there. Any way you reach out, you're going to get me. I don't use AI. I don't have any virtual assistants. It will be me if you reach out and want to chat.

So. But Sarah, seriously, thank you for what you do here. This is such a great show. I've been enjoying as a listener myself.

I'm so glad to have you here and you are always my pod match. So it's about time I had you over.

Thank you.

And thank you all everyone for listening. Hit that subscribe button so you can keep coming back and hearing from more great speakers like Alex. I'll see you next week.