Stop Losing Leads: How Strategic Follow-Up Turns Speaking Gigs Into Clients

Welcome back to My First Stage, the podcast that talks to professional public speakers about how they got started. And I am really excited. I've been looking forward to this conversation with Ms. Wanda Allen. She is an international speaker, coach, corporate trainer, author, and most importantly, follow-up expert. And if anybody else has the level of ADHD that I have, following up on anything is probably your worst nightmare. So I'm really excited to learn some follow-up strategies to help with speaking engagements. So, Juan, thank you so much for being here.

Well, thank you. I'm excited to be here.

We talked a little bit about how you got started with speaking, and I know we don't remember the exact first stage, but you do remember a a lot of those early speaking engagements and some things that went wrong, some things that went right, some mistakes that we made. So talk about how you got started speaking and some of those really glaring memories.

So I had a 25-year corporate career and I was a business banker and I was a senior vice president and our bank got acquired by another bank. We were not the lead bank. And I was part of senior management. And typically when that scenario shows up, the senior people that are not with the lead company are let go. So I was let go and it'd been 25 years. I didn't know what I was going to do. Banking was all I knew. And a friend of mine said, you should become a coach and a speaker and teach people how you follow up.

Because I was good at it and I developed systems of that in my banking career. And I thought I really admired her. And I'm like, really? I have no clue. I have no clue. But I thought, what the heck? So I went out there and just went out. I was on a wing and a prayer when I was doing it. And somebody had said to me, if you can, if you know what you do and you do it well, you can talk about it. And so that's what, that's what I went on.

But you know, there was no structure. There was no strategy. I was just giving.

Yeah.

away the shop. And, you know, you, I think we've all done that. Have we? Okay, good. I'm not alone then because I was so frustrated. I'm like, well, why aren't people going to the next step with me? You know, I don't get it. Well, then I was convinced to hire a coach because I was out there trying it by myself. No, I knew nothing about nothing. And somebody suggested I hire a coach.

So I found a coach and I hired her and she When she saw my presentation, she said, oh my gosh, no wonder no one's going to the next step. You're giving them so much and they're so full that that's what's going on. So that was like one of the biggest lessons that I learned. You need to give value. There's no question, but you don't give the store away in the process. So that's the mistake I was making and it was a big one and I made it for a long time. I did it for, you know, too long. And then you're, you get uncomfortable, right? Because I'm so used to giving so much and oh my gosh, I'm going to pull it back and you have to go through that old rigmarole, which is mine, you know, in between the ears and coaching, you know, talking me through it.

And then, you know, hired another coach that helped me structure my presentation, which was really, really good and valuable. So it's just an evolution. It's been 16 years.

Yeah.

But the biggest thing I can say is just go out and do it. You know, I mean, if you get coached, great. But if not, just, you'll stumble and it's okay and you'll learn. And it's like anything else, the more you do it, the better you get, right?

Yeah, I'm definitely, I relate to that so much because I am in the camp of I just want to tell everything. And I've tried to shove an hour and a half of content into like a 10-minute talk and it does not ever go well and they're like, can you do that again at like 0.25 speed or something? Uh, so what, what were you doing in order to figure out this is what I should give them? I gotta hold this back. Like, what, how do you strike that balance?

So one piece of advice I was given that stayed with me forever is you tell them what to do, but not how to do it. The how-to is the paid information. The what-to-do still gives you value. So that gave me so much clarity. So if I say, you have to have systems in place, I don't tell them what the systems are, but you need to have systems. Okay? So things like that. And that was just, that was invaluable to me. Because it helped clear my mind of not sure where to start and where to stop.

And that was, um, that was challenging until I learned. And telling them what to do is really, really good content. Because regardless of what you're speaking on, people are always open to tips, ideas, and suggestions on ways to get better. And so that's the thing. You want them walking away feeling like, oh, that was good. I, you know, I needed. Got good information. Um, I can work on what was taught, but it's kind of staying surface level, not going real deep.

That's interesting. I, I feel like I, one of the things that I sometimes say, and it always depends on like the audience and what you're talking about and how easy or hard it is to do the things and everything. Um, but part of me feels like the, the time is more important to a lot of people than the money. So if you tell them how to do it, they'll still pay you to do it, but you just prove that you know how to do it. And like, what am I getting wrong? Like, prove me wrong.

Yeah, yeah. And I love that because, you know, I've heard that too, is, you know, there's a philosophy, don't be afraid to give give away information because that's, you know, what you just said, they're going to want more. And so it's not being too afraid of it, but there's also that there's a fine line there too, where you, when you step over the line, it's just, you know, again, going back to giving the store away.

Yeah. How do you find that line?

Uh, well, for me, it's, Um, like I don't teach systems. I talk to them about systems, but I don't teach the systems. So anything that I teach in my paid coaching program, I do not teach. Like if, you know, sometimes you'll speak where you waive your speaking fee, but you can offer something, you know, whether it's a strategy call or, and some places you might even be able to offer your program, but I don't cross those lines. If it's in my program, I know very, but it took me quite a while to get there, you know, but now I'm very, very clear about it. So if somebody's to ask me, uh, well, can you, like, how many times should we follow up? You know, I get that question a lot. Well, that is a system.

Hmm.

So what I'll say is, well, I have a system for that that I can't go into here, but I can tell you, don't even think about quitting until you've followed up 5 times. I just don't even think about it. So they're still getting some information, but not the system.

Yeah.

Because I don't want to not answer the question and turn them off, you know, because then it's like, oh, you know, she's just here to get coaching clients. I don't like that either. Um, but I don't want to come across as that. So I will give them some, you know, with the direct questions, but that's always my out. You know, I. I can't get into that here, but this is, you know, what I will say about that. And it, it seems satisfying because I've never had any pushback or complaints about it. And people understand too, like, oh, okay, yeah, I understand, you know.

Yeah, I think the, the example that you gave is really smart because you technically did answer the question. They said like, how many times should I follow up? And so you said like no less than 5. So you've answered the question, but you answered it in a way that first primed them to know that there's more to know about this. Like, I'm answering your question, but you— there's probably some more there that you'll want to find out about. And so that kind of sets that sale up. And I'm sure that you didn't even think about that, and I just blew your mind. That was— it's so accurate.

I did. You did, because I'm like, no wonder I haven't had pushback or complaints. I've never thought of it like that.

But I was kidding. I was like, this is the strategy, isn't it?

That is like the number one question I get. So I just rolled off my tongue. So that's really good. That's really good. And I'd like to share a piece of advice I got that It just was so good for me. So I hired a coach. She is great. She's hilarious, just like so comedic, funny.

And she told me, you have to make the audience laugh. And I said, I am not a comedic personality at all. I'm just not. You have to know yourself. And she said, then here's how we're going to get around it. Make sure you have some funny PowerPoint slides because that can make them laugh. And when they laugh at your PowerPoints, they'll— that comedic energy is, you know, it's between you and the PowerPoint. That's one of the best pieces of advice that I've ever received.

Interesting. No, I love that. One of, like, some of the advice I give when I talk about storytelling is to go watch master storytellers. And the people I usually say first are stand-up comedians. And you can learn so much about like how to tell a story and timing and everything. So even if you're not necessarily telling jokes, you can like implement different timing tactics that still kind of get a laugh without it being a punchline.

Yes, exactly. And you, I think if we go too, we all have to do things that are uncomfortable, but if we go too far out where it doesn't even feel authentic or it's not me, it's not good.

Yeah.

So, you know, there's a balance there. And she was really pushing me. And I said, that's like you're telling Brian Tracy to perform like Tony Robbins. And if you know those 2 people, it would never— Brian Tracy is so monotone. He's very, very successful, um, very even keel. And Tony Robbins is, you know, he's all about bouncing and energy. So it's respecting and, and who you are and what you can do within your personality so it doesn't feel fake and authentic, inauthentic to who you are.

Yeah. Now, without giving away the shop and giving us the actual systems, um, when, if someone's do like on stage doing a speaking engagement, uh, there's, you have to follow up with like the audience. That— what's usually— there's some kind of lead magnet, or there's something there that gets them into your system that you have to follow up with. Are you having to follow up with the event itself? Like, what, what are a few things that we should keep in mind to, like, follow up about, um, so that we're getting the most ROI as possible from a speaking engagement?

Well, if you have a lead generator that, let's say, is just getting them on your newsletter list, Okay, of course you want to do a blanket thank you. Thank you for attending. You know, if there's any way I can support you, here's some freebies or tools, you know, something like that. So they hear from you right away. Like, that should go out the next day. There's just no reason why it shouldn't. If you're having like some kind of drawing and like, let's say you're giving away a book and in your entry form has like, yes, I'm interested in talking to Wanda about her coaching or her speaking to my group. And they check that.

Those you follow up the next day, not in a newsletter format. You actually follow up with them because you, they'll forget. You know, as much as we want to believe they won't, they'll forget. And so timing is, is of the essence when it comes, because you want to strike while the oil's hot. You're still in their mind and, and they're, You know, they remember yesterday and how you made them feel and how inspired, motivated, excited they were. And you don't. And as time goes on, that, that wanes and then it turns cold. So remind yourself, you know, if, if you don't, why did you even do the event? You know, if you're not gonna follow up, if you're not gonna seize what potential opportunities have come your way because of that, you know, it's like networking and getting business cards and doing nothing with them.

Why are you doing it then?

Yeah.

You know, yeah, that's, that's what you have to remind yourself of. Is it uncomfortable? Maybe if you're not used to following up. Yeah, it can be, but do it anyway. The more you do it, the easier it gets. It's a muscle, you know, the more developed it gets.

Yeah. One thing that I've been doing, and I would be interested in hearing your kind of opinion on it, like if you give someone a business card, they're so tiny, they get lost. They forget that you gave it to them. Uh, so like if I'm speaking at something, yes, I'll have like a QR code to download something. But if you're anything like me, you download it, you forget to ever look at it again. I usually will do like a worksheet so that they take it with them and they've written on it. They might want to return to it because they remembered something that they wrote and that'll have my info on it.

Yeah.

So it's like kind of trying to give them something a little more like return-to-able. than just like a business card. What are your thoughts on that and any other strategies like that that you've seen work?

So I used to do that, um, early on, and, um, and the printing cost— now this was when I was speaking a ton in person, you know, printing expenses, it added up. And a lot of times they were using them as coasters, you know, they weren't even writing on them. So if you do that, what I started doing was I Put the forms on the chairs, not on the table. And then afterwards, for those that weren't used, I went and picked them up. That money's sitting there, you know? And then—

Recycle. I love it.

Yeah. And even if they didn't use it, if it was on the table, now it's got water rings on it, you know, from the cup. And that's not a joke. That's, that's a real thing. So, um, that, that is a strategy. So you're trying to save waste as much as possible. Um, and then I got to a point where I don't, I don't do it at all. Um, I, I will do an enter to win form for a, um, copy of my book and it's a lead generator.

Yeah.

Those I put on the chairs as well. Um, but yeah, I don't hand out business cards. If somebody comes up to me and asks for my business card, I'll give it to them, you know, but it's just because, like you say, if you, hand out business cards, what do they do with them? Do they do anything with them? And, you know, and if they, if they're talking to you and you're having a good conversation, I, I'll get their business card and I'll jot notes down and just ask, would you like me to follow up with you? Ask that question. Don't be afraid to ask for the next step because if somebody's interest is piqued, it's actually your responsibility to do that because otherwise they could get lost and you, you never cross paths again and you just, Miss an opportunity to serve them. And that's really what it's about, right? You're serving those who you work with. And so just ask, would it, would you like me to follow up? When would be a good time? If they don't stop it, yes, yes, I'd like you to follow up because then you're going to have to guess when. Just ask, when would be a good time? Or maybe would you like to set up a time now if you have your calendar? Don't be afraid to do that either. It's about efficiency and it's Professional.

And people think, oh, that's pushy. And it's really not. It's, you're being professional. If you're kind and polite, you know, you're not abrasive. They're piquing an interest in what you do. It's, it's being productive really is what it is.

Yeah. Back when I worked in PR, my director of PR always said, be pleasantly persistent.

Yes. Yes.

Pleasantly persistent.

But yeah, that's what, you know, it's, it's your job because if you don't do that, Again, why are you there? You know, and if you ask yourself, why am I not doing what I need to do to get to the next step? You know, and it's a self-assessment. Is it fear? Are you scared? Are you uncomfortable? That's okay. Who isn't scared and uncomfortable, you know, at times? It's all right. Do it anyway.

I also should have realized I was wasting money on printing the time that I sent the documents to be printed at the wrong place. And had to pay for them twice.

Oh no.

Because they already printed, I already paid for it, but they're in a different city and now I need to get them here. So let's do this all again, kids. Um, yeah, that, that one, that one was a little bit wasteful. I feel bad about that one.

Um, yeah, and it's expensive, you know. Listen, every dollar matters, right? Yeah, where, where you put it.

Definitely. Um, I know there's also like different types of like lead generation forms and different things. Have you seen anything that works really well to get people into your funnel to follow up with them, like specific types of lead magnets or specific calls to action? Not the system behind it, just what it is.

Yeah, I think so. If you're an author, I think the best thing you can do is do have a drawing for your book with a lead generator form. Yes, I want to be on, uh, the newsletter list. Yes, I want to talk to you about speaking to my group. And yes, I'm interested in a strategy call or, you know, discovery call, whatever term works best. And, um, they, and you don't want a bunch of their information. I just had, um, name, phone number, and email address because those are the primary tools of communication, right? We can cover everything. with that information.

So it's a very simple form. It's, uh, it's, um, not an 8.5, it's like an 8.5 by 11 cut in 2.

Yeah.

It, you know, and it's a small form. So whatever, whatever you want to lead them into, just get that on the, as a box for them to check. And, you know, there's people that don't check any, but want to enter the drawing. You know, that's okay. You know, there's nothing you can do about that. Um, I tell them write legibly because if you don't, I can't read it. Um, or QR codes, you know, those work too. Um, there you can put up your calendar link with a QR code if you're interested in a strategy call.

I mean, and if you're not an author, give away a Starbucks card. I mean, you know, it doesn't have to be a book, but people love to win stuff.

Yeah.

True. And, and if they're— you've just finished talking, um, they're, they're excited about you and they really resonated with you, they're going to fill out that form. And then I would ask the organizer beforehand, I'd say, will you help me pick the forms up afterwards? And that's always very helpful.

That's smart too. You even follow up on how you get your forms. You are a machine.

Yeah, I am. It's just life is so much easier when it's, when it's, I just got it down to a system. But, you know, again, when you've been doing it for a long time, you know, it just, it happens. So, but I mean, you know, I still, I'm still learning and growing and evolving and learning what worked, what didn't. We, you know, we tried things and like, you know, that didn't really work or I didn't really like that. I'm going to try something else. That's okay too. That's how you get better, right?

Yeah.

We're not, we're not stuck forever with the way we're doing it.

I, I wanna ask, so I feel like the first follow-up email feels kind of easy cuz like you have a reason you're following up. It's the one after that when they've already possibly ignored you. Do you have any tips for like how to Like what to say in that? Like, sorry if you missed this, but like, how do you do that without feeling pushy and uncomfortable?

Yeah. Well, you're not being pushy or uncomfortable. I mean, you may be uncomfortable, but you're not being pushy. So again, if they, here's the deal is follow up with the people that expressed an interest in what you do. Because if you follow up people who did not express any kind of interest, you're wasting your time. Because the ones that did express an interest are going to take your time because they do things like ignore you. That's very, very common. So remember that research tells us 80% of sales are made between the 5th and 12th contact.

That's why I said earlier, don't even think about quitting until you've made 5, because 80% of the time it's between 5 and 12, but 90% of people quit after 2. Okay? So most people fall away. And if you're the one that continues to follow up, by the— you're oftentimes are going to be the last one standing, which means you're going to be the one that gets the business. So be very clear about the purpose of why you're following up and just simply state that. You know, we met at that ABC event where I spoke and you had expressed an interest and I'm following up to See if you'd like to schedule a time to talk or, you know, whatever it is. Just be clear about why you're following up and stick to it. And, you know, so say what you mean and ask for what you want. So don't try to sugarcoat or beat around the bush.

Don't worry, oh my gosh, they're going to think I'm being pushy. No, you're doing your job. If your job's to bring in business, get speaking jobs, get clients, your job is to follow up because this research also tells us Only 2% of sales are made on the first contact. Okay, so 98% of the time you have to follow up and you do get ignored. Prospects do ignore you. Um, but when you continue to follow up, when they finally reach out, they will say, oh, I'm so sorry I didn't get back to you. Thank you for following up. And I'm not suggesting you follow up with every single prospect you've ever met for the rest of your life.

You don't have that kind of time. But you gotta give it a fair shake. Like you can't just follow up once or twice and then quit. You can, but that gets exhausting because then you gotta go find another lead and your pipeline remains thin and you want a robust pipeline because sales is a numbers game. And so anyway, that's, um, that's what I would say to that. That's what you say, just simply why you're following up.

Yeah.

And, and I will also say the number one tool I recommend to follow up is the phone for its originally intended purpose. And people go, oh my gosh, you want me to call? Yes, call them. And, and, oh, but nobody answers their phone. Come on. No one on planet Earth answers their phone. That's not true. You get voicemail. Yeah, you get voicemail a lot.

But here's why I say it, because here's why I say this. I can cover with you in a 5-minute conversation what could take 3 emails and 2 days. And you're going to tell me things on the phone that you will not tell me in an email or a text or a DM. It's the most efficient tool we have, and it's the one that's used least. People are afraid of it. The skill and art of communication is gone. And follow-up has its own inherent fears. Fear of being pushy, fear of rejection, fear of not knowing what to say.

And so when you couple those inherent fears with, um, oh my gosh, you want me to talk to them and use the phone? It doesn't get done. But you also typically don't know your prospects and you have to develop a relationship with them. They need to start trusting you and getting to know you and you getting to know them. If that's only done electronically, it's going to take a long time and there's going to be no depth to it if all you are is an email, text, or DM. So technology is an incredible tool, but it's not the be-all and end-all. And so people are really afraid of the phone today, but I challenge you to try it and give yourself a chance to have them answer and see how great it is. And people, oh, but what if I bother? You know, I don't want to bother them. You know, they might be busy.

Just ask them, do you have a minute? People are honest. It's like, just communicate.

People are honest. Easier said than done.

It's when there's the fear is there. Yeah. But I promise you will not die. The sun will rise in the morning. It's not the end of the world. Listen, we are human beings and we need human interaction for the health and wellness of our relationships. You can't have a good relationship electronically. You just can't.

And you can have a relationship, but it will never replace a smile, a handshake, a hug, a verbal conversation. It never will. And all Technology experts say the same thing. You know, it won't— human interaction will never be trumped by anything because we're human beings. If we were robots, it'd be a little different, but we're not. So I throw that challenge out to your audience. Try the good old-fashioned phone.

This is going to be a do as I say, not as I do, because I probably will still avoid phone calls no matter what. But okay. Okay, what if— okay, a happy medium. What if we have a text that says, would you be available for a phone call? Because my generation, we don't just call out of the blue. They need to know. We'll text like, hey, can I call?

Yeah, that's good. I mean, that's tipping your toe in the pool. And that's good. That's good.

It's better than— Baby steps.

That's right. If that makes you comfortable, more comfortable, at least trying to get a set, set up a phone call, then yeah. Yeah, by all means, you can do that. You can take that first baby step, but I'm sure you'd agree when you talk to somebody, you get more information. It's a lot faster. You get to the point you can feel where they are. You can hear. their tonality.

You don't get any of that electronically. And I know, I get it. The younger generation is just all about electronic means of communication. But if you really want to stand out and be different, throw a phone call in there. Just try it. Because if you're doing what the masses are doing, you're not going to stand out.

Yeah. I'm like, I'm a baby millennial, so I have some millennial and some Gen Z tendencies. And so I think I, I do like phone calls. I just like to know they're coming.

You know what? If they don't answer the phone, just leave a message.

Oh no, we can't do that. Voicemails are out of the question. I have never said anything eloquently on a voicemail. I've never said anything that didn't sound like complete nonsense on I, my biggest fear is that I'm gonna sign off as like, okay, love you. And no, like, I will not. I'm sorry. I'll try to get— I'll try making the calls, but I'm hanging up before the voicemail.

That's the thing.

Oh, you just, you just dug your own grave because now I'm just going to call you every day like, hi, I'm calling to practice leaving voicemails. Please don't call me back. I won't answer.

And that's okay.

Something to look forward to.

Good. Here's the thing. You have no control over what they're going to do, if they're going to answer, if they're going to respond to your text or email. You have no control over any of that. The only thing you have control over is the action you need to take. So just take it, let the chips fall where they may, and get the work done that needs to get done that's going to build your business. That's really what it boils down to.

Oh, it is great advice. Maybe I'll take it. Before we wrap up, is there any last piece of advice for people who want to get the most ROI from a speak— specifically from a speaking engagement?

It's follow-up. And the thing is, you just commit to it. If you will commit, the number one way to get more speaking engagements is to follow up. To get more clients is to follow up. It's the best way to grow sales. Just commit. Make it a part of every working day because it's very easy not to do. It's very easy to put off.

I'll do it later. There's something more important. But don't. If you will get it done first thing, And commit to getting that work done every working day, it'll, it'll change everything. It'll change you. It'll change the number of engagements you get. It changes your clientele, your business. It changes everything.

That's great advice. And I'd like to offer a blanket apology for everyone sitting in my inbox that I have not followed up with, uh, because there's, it's a long list. Um, if anybody wants to learn more about you, get in touch and gain access to those awesome systems that you do have, how can they do that?

Go to my website. It's kind of a one-stop shop. I got a couple freebies there. If you want to schedule time to chat, there's my calendar link. And so it's followupsalesstrategies.com.

Perfect. Well, everyone go look into that. Go find some of those follow-up strategies. I know they're going to be super useful. I know I probably need a bunch of them and come back next week for another episode of My First Stage. Thanks so much for hanging out.