How to Create Customer Loyalty for Your Brand

Larry Roberts [00:00:09]:

What is happening, everybody? I'm Larry Roberts.

Sara Lohse [00:00:12]:

And I'm Sara Lohse. And this is Branded, your comprehensive guide to creative branding.

Larry Roberts [00:00:16]:

And on this solo ish episode of the podcast, you know, we've been going through and interviewing folks, but Sara and I felt, you know what? We need to do something together.

Sara Lohse [00:00:25]:

We needed some bonding time.

Larry Roberts [00:00:27]:

We did. We just needed some solo time to chat and reconnect with our audience on a very personal level. So that's what we're looking to do today. And in all honesty, that kind of brings us to the topic of the episode. I had an interesting experience this past week, and we thought this would be a great opportunity to talk about exceptional customer service and how it impacts your brand.

Sara Lohse [00:00:52]:

I think we just really need to focus, though, on how stupid this mistake was.

Larry Roberts [00:00:58]:

Wasn't that stupid. It wasn't that stupid.

Sara Lohse [00:01:02]:

What did you do? It was tell everyone what you did.

Larry Roberts [00:01:05]:

And you know, the worst part is that I was showing you what I ordered and it was on the image when I showed you.

Sara Lohse [00:01:12]:

Yeah, I saw it, but I thought I was like, oh, okay, that's weird. They like, keep the grids on, even in the proof.

Larry Roberts [00:01:19]:

I thought that same thing, and I looked at the proof.

Sara Lohse [00:01:20]:

So anyways, tell everyone what you did.

Larry Roberts [00:01:22]:

Yeah. Well, here's the thing, man. I've been going to a ton of networking events here in Dallas, the metroplex, and it's a mix of folks. Summer are gen xers, some are even boomers, some are Gen Z ers, some are millennials. And depending on where I go, there's different. We'll call them expectations in these rooms. Some expect you to have a digital business card, some expect you to have a LinkedIn, some expect you to have, gasp, business cards. And after going to these events, I thought, man, because what I do is I typically, I don't typically, I always just have my phone as my wallpaper.

Larry Roberts [00:02:02]:

On my phone, it's a QR code to my LinkedIn. But the more I'm out there shaking hands, kissing babies, the more I'm getting asked for business cards. So I broke down and I said, I just need to get some business cards. And unlike my co host and business partner here, Miss Sara, I have to have the cat daddiest cards in the world. So I went over to my favorite card provider, and based on the responses I got from everybody on my social media post, they love them equally. I went to moo.com, hashtag sponsor us. Well, it's funny because they actually commented on my Facebook post. So that was that was interesting there.

Larry Roberts [00:02:41]:

But anyways, so what I did was I looked at my cards that I had on there, and, you know, it's great because you can just click reorder and order your old cards. But so much had changed since the last time I, the last set of cards I had didn't have Larry Roberts.com on there. It was still using some different colors for the background. And so I took the opportunity to redesign everything. And I designed this really cat daddy looking card. And I ordered the Lux version of the mood cards, which is those super thick ones with a nice little color stripe in between the fibers. And I got the red stripes. I thought that'd be kind of cool with the red hat, and uploaded them.

Larry Roberts [00:03:18]:

And I ordered the order. And I ordered. I went a little overboard this time, too, because typically I order, like, 100. Well, this time I was so proud of these cards that I ordered 200. So. And, you know, it's a little pricey ordering that the their lux cards. And for 200, I think it came out to $167. So it's a little pricey.

Larry Roberts [00:03:38]:

But, man, the cards make an impression when people, you know, when you hand it to them, they're like, damn, that is a card right there. And I love that reaction. So anyways, I ordered the cards, and I was so excited and so proud. And I ordered expedited shipping, which I think was an extra $20 and maybe even 25 because there's an event next week, and I wanted to make sure I had the cards in time for the event. And they arrived, what, two days ago? I think maybe two days ago, something like that. And I was so stoked when I got them off the front porch and opened them up and whipped them out and went. And I looked at the card, and the back looked amazing, but the front still had all of the template guidelines, and it even said, us standard sized business card. And then it had instructions on how to use the template overlaid on my glorious new business cards that I had just ordered.

Larry Roberts [00:04:33]:

And again, they were $167, and I ordered instructions.

Sara Lohse [00:04:40]:

Did it say remove before printing?

Larry Roberts [00:04:43]:

Look, I'm a man. I don't read instructions, okay? So that's probably one of the biggest problems. But keep in mind, too, that I ordered not one, but 200. So now I had 200 business cards.

Sara Lohse [00:04:55]:

How many cards did you order?

Larry Roberts [00:04:57]:

200.

Sara Lohse [00:04:58]:

Oh, okay.

Larry Roberts [00:04:58]:

Not one, but two.

Sara Lohse [00:05:00]:

Gotcha.

Larry Roberts [00:05:00]:

2200.

Sara Lohse [00:05:01]:

Make sure I got it right.

Larry Roberts [00:05:02]:

Yeah. So now I have 200 business cards that have. Have, like, bleed markers on the edges. And again, just tons of extra text on top of the cards. So, again, I was taken aback as soon as I opened them. I was super stoked when they got there. And then I shed a little tear after I realized my very hardcore mistake there. And so I thought, you know what? I've got to try.

Larry Roberts [00:05:27]:

I know this is my mistake. I know I messed up. I went and reopened the Photoshop file and looked, and sure enough, the guidelines, that's. That layer was still checked. So I was like, man, golly, this sucks. So I jumped on Moo's website, found their phone number, and jumped on. And the guy that answered the phone, super nice, super cordial. And look, I just laid into it.

Larry Roberts [00:05:49]:

I was like, look, bro, I know this is on me, 100% on me, but I just got the cards, and they're all messed up. I know it's my fault, but is there anything you can do to help me out? And he was like, well, go ahead and give me your account number. Let me see what we're working with here. And I said, please keep in mind, too, you look at my account, you'll see I'm like, a decade long moo customer. I've ordered from you guys for years and years and years. I said, please keep that in mind as you decide whether or not you can help me. And that. That's just that.

Larry Roberts [00:06:21]:

That's that old man coming in. Right? Remember, I've been with you forever. So it took you.

Sara Lohse [00:06:26]:

Any idea who I think I am?

Larry Roberts [00:06:28]:

Yeah. No. Was it that? It was. I've been giving you guys money for a very long time. I should be a preferred customer. And I even felt cheesy saying it, but I just really wanted some help here.

Sara Lohse [00:06:39]:

You went a little Karen.

Larry Roberts [00:06:40]:

What's that? A little Karen.

Sara Lohse [00:06:41]:

Little Karen.

Larry Roberts [00:06:42]:

It was. It was a. Yeah, it was. There was a little Karen in there. And also, you know, a whole lot of embarrassment because I had to, you know, admit that this was all on me, and I stressed that. I said, look, bro, I'm about to tell you something that is totally my mistake. But he looked at it, and he goes, oh, my gosh. Yeah, I see exactly what you did.

Larry Roberts [00:06:58]:

And I totally get it. And you know what? We will be more than happy to reprint your lux business cards, all 200 of them, again, for you, and expedite the shipping so you still have them in time for your event next week. And I was like, oh, my God, that's the coolest thing ever. So I was blown away. Moo. You know, they came through. Yeah. Kind of rhymed it on purpose, but they did.

Larry Roberts [00:07:24]:

They came through in a clinch. And, man, it was just awesome. And, you know, it just left me with just this elated feeling of experiencing customer service on an entirely different level. Even though I goofed, they still went out of their way to make it right for the customer. So that was a story that I had to share. And I put it out on LinkedIn, I put it out on Facebook, and like I say, they even move and came back and I wrote this post, said, I'm a move fan for life. And they came back and said, we're so happy to help and so glad to have you as a move fan for life. So not only did they hook me up, they realized my social media post, they commented on it, and it wasn't just a generic response, because they literally referenced the terminology I used in the post.

Larry Roberts [00:08:07]:

It wasn't just a rubber stamp reply on a social media post. They. They just, every step of the way, they just demonstrated a level of customer service that you don't see these days.

Sara Lohse [00:08:18]:

I feel like anytime I have one of those really great customer service experiences, it makes me want to give them more money.

Larry Roberts [00:08:26]:

Well, yeah, I mean, that's kind of. I mean, that's kind of the point.

Sara Lohse [00:08:30]:

Yeah.

Larry Roberts [00:08:30]:

You know, and it was interesting, too, because on the social media posts that I put out there, both on LinkedIn and on Facebook, man, people were just raving everybody that commented, oh, I love moo. Ha ha. That's funny what you did, but I love moo, too. They're so cool. They always take care of me. They're always great. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Every post was making fun of me and praising moo simultaneously.

Sara Lohse [00:08:53]:

I feel like when I set my financial goals, my goal is to graduate from Walmart to target and from office Mex to moo for my business. Like, I want to reach that level of wealth. Yeah, I'm not there yet. Disposable income.

Larry Roberts [00:09:11]:

Yeah, no, it feels good.

Sara Lohse [00:09:12]:

I get my box of, like, 500 for $1.50 or whatever it is. And with that, but that really, you remember those kinds of experiences, and that's how you create those fans for life. It's how you create those brand evangelists. And it's such an important piece when you're building a brand, is getting that reputation, and I'm not sure if I even offer that, and I hate that about myself because it's just my way. My brain works. I don't answer emails.

Larry Roberts [00:09:44]:

What do you mean you don't answer emails? I know. You don't answer text.

Sara Lohse [00:09:47]:

I don't answer text. And I don't answer emails. I'll get an email. It's from. It'll be from a client and they'll tell me, like, all of this stuff is in the drive or whatever, and all I have to say is, got it or something. And I don't. I just do the work that needs to be done and just ignore it. And then they come back with, like, did you get this email? Oh, yeah, I got it.

Sara Lohse [00:10:08]:

Everything's done. You're good to go. I just don't remember. I'll either respond in my head or I'll just go straight into doing whatever the task is. And I just never respond to the emails.

Larry Roberts [00:10:22]:

Well, I mean, you know, I'm fired. Some of us are just arrogant like that, you know, we don't. We can't be bothered by replying to emails or texts or what, instant messages or anything. It's just, pshaw. Don't have time for it.

Sara Lohse [00:10:35]:

Seriously. Like, who do y'all think you are? My time is precious. No, but I really. I need to get better at that. I honestly do.

Larry Roberts [00:10:44]:

We all do.

Sara Lohse [00:10:45]:

My best customer service company, chewy, the.

Larry Roberts [00:10:51]:

Dog food or pet food company that.

Sara Lohse [00:10:54]:

Yes, the pet company. Everyone at Chewy is invited to Thanksgiving. They are the best human beings that company. Anytime you have to return something, it's no question. If it's like, an entire bag of food, they don't take anything back. They just say, donate it to a shelter. Amazing. I love that.

Larry Roberts [00:11:16]:

Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:11:17]:

And then it's just replaced. Like, no questions asked. I've ordered a forgotten to cancel auto ships and gotten food that Harvey doesn't like anymore. They just refunded and I donated. Um, I think that time I dropped it on the side of the road for a. There's a homeless camp with a couple dogs. I've got. I've done the wrong medicine, like, the wrong weights, forgot that he had gotten fat.

Sara Lohse [00:11:38]:

And they're like, yeah, no, that's fine. Just don't even bother sending it back. We'll send you out a new one. They once, there was, like, one thing I was like, $4 that I wanted to return to, and they refunded an entire $200 order for a $4 product. I was like, I only meant this one thing.

Larry Roberts [00:11:53]:

Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:11:54]:

And they refunded everything I had ordered.

Larry Roberts [00:11:56]:

Wow.

Sara Lohse [00:11:57]:

And then they send my dog's birthday cards. They sent me a hand painted portrait of my dog.

Larry Roberts [00:12:05]:

Wow.

Sara Lohse [00:12:06]:

Hand painted. Like, you could see the brushstrokes.

Larry Roberts [00:12:08]:

Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:12:13]:

I can't say I didn't ask for it because I kind of did. I knew they were doing that for random people and I tweeted at them like how do I get randomly selected for a portrait of my dog? And they dm me saying what's your email address associated with your account? So I don't know if I was super randomly selected, but I got my portrait.

Larry Roberts [00:12:32]:

That's all that matters. Is that the one that hangs in the living room of Harvey there? Is that the one?

Sara Lohse [00:12:36]:

No. So the one hanging in the living room like in my stairwell? That was actually one of my best friends, Talon.

Larry Roberts [00:12:41]:

Oh that's right.

Sara Lohse [00:12:42]:

She actually did that one as a digital portrait. And now that I just adopted Kevin, he's going to get his for Christmas. So he's working on one for him. This one. It's the little square one on the little canvas that sits on my bookshelf.

Larry Roberts [00:12:56]:

Okay, I don't recall that.

Sara Lohse [00:12:57]:

I think it's of the same photo. So they look the same, but one's like hand painted and then one is like digital art.

Larry Roberts [00:13:03]:

Oh that's cool. That's super cool. But yeah, it's just an example of, you know, those small, and if it's a smaller photo, I mean that kind of is relevant too. It's the small things you can do sometimes to really stretch that customer service experience for your clients is obviously a direct reflection on your brand. You know, I mean we look at Amazon, I order stuff all the time from Amazon and have to send it back and I send it back and there's typically no questions asked and I get a full refund. And it's amazing. I mean if I'm trying on clothes because I don't like going out in public shopping. So it's one of those things where I'll order clothes, try them on, go that doesn't quite fit right and then just ship it back.

Larry Roberts [00:13:44]:

It's like Amazon is my personal, what are those called? Dressing rooms. So that type of thing is what keeps me going back.

Sara Lohse [00:13:51]:

That one I'm not so sure about because I don't think it's anything on Amazon that's going to come out of the actual retailers pocket and because takes money from everybody.

Larry Roberts [00:14:03]:

It doesn't come out of my pocket. How's that?

Sara Lohse [00:14:05]:

That's true.

Larry Roberts [00:14:06]:

It's like kids who go to college on scholarship, they don't care. They're just there getting education for free. They don't care where it comes from, they don't care if it's subsidized by the government and our taxes that they're going to school on. They're cool with that. And I'm the same way with Amazon. So if I can use Amazon to get free stuff, or at least free opportunities to try stuff on and send it back, I'm all about it. So to me, it's Amazon providing that customer service.

Sara Lohse [00:14:28]:

I guess I just hate giving them credit for stuff, but this isn't customer service.

Larry Roberts [00:14:35]:

I love how some brands get a bad reputation for just being too successful. Yes, we're too successful, so people hate it.

Sara Lohse [00:14:41]:

Yes, exactly.

Larry Roberts [00:14:43]:

That's, that, that's just blows my mind. It's got to be a generational thing. Yeah, it blows my mind for somebody to have success. Envy to the point I have such a brand.

Sara Lohse [00:14:53]:

Seriously, though, I have no idea. Yes, me, this is a very common thing, cognitive dissonance about Amazon, too, because like, on a purely, like, principal level, I hate them, but I also order from them every day.

Larry Roberts [00:15:11]:

Oh, there you go.

Sara Lohse [00:15:13]:

So I appreciate the honesty. Yeah, no, in this situation, I have the moral backbone of a marshmallow peep, but it's fine. But this is so not necessarily customer service, but just like how we treat other people. I just have the story and I just need to share it.

Larry Roberts [00:15:28]:

Cool.

Sara Lohse [00:15:29]:

There's. I think it was like a football team. It was a college football team, and they only have a set number of scholarships they can give to their athletes. And they ran out and one of their students could, like, one of the players could not get a scholarship because they were out of scholarships and he was selling plasma to afford his tuition. Wow. While playing for the school. And one of the scholarship kids went to his parents, discussed, like, if they can afford it without the scholarship and everything, and went to his coach and said, take away my scholarship and give it to him.

Larry Roberts [00:16:02]:

Dude, that's amazing. That, that's an amazing story.

Sara Lohse [00:16:06]:

My heart. Yeah, I would support his business a hundred percent.

Larry Roberts [00:16:12]:

And, you know, and I think that's what puts some of these, these companies in the position to provide the level of service that they provide. It can be very, very difficult for brand new entrepreneurs who's just building a brand to provide. We'll say that level of customer service, sometimes we just can't afford to take that financial hit. And that's, that's totally understandable. But there's still opportunities for us to provide customer service at an exceptional level, even if you take the monetary side of things out of the equation. And I think that we lose sight of that sometimes because it can be super frustrating if you're a consultant or a coach and you have clients that are on retainer and they seem to take advantage of every opportunity they have to, to work with you. They're sending you emails at 02:00 in the morning or sending you texts all day every day, including twice on Sunday. And it just gets super frustrating.

Larry Roberts [00:17:09]:

And there is an opportunity to hopefully, you know, divorce those types of clients. But in the meantime, if we're under a contract or under an extended agreement or we've, they purchased a level of service from us, even if it gets frustrating, we still have to keep in mind that throughout all that frustration, our brand is still at the forefront of that interaction.

Sara Lohse [00:17:32]:

Yeah, I had one experience that I was just, I kind of just said effort and I don't care what they think about my brand, but I had a client that they just were terrible and they, we had an agreement of when I would like, I was paid monthly as a retainer and it'd be paid at the beginning of the month and they were just withholding payment.

Larry Roberts [00:17:54]:

Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:17:54]:

Because they wanted to see specific results and those results were not possible to get yet. It was like I told them, there's a six month minimum for a reason. You're not going to see this result in month two. And they just refused. I was still doing the work because I didn't want the projects to fall behind because customer service and like, I want to do what I said I was going to do. Yeah, they refused to pay.

Larry Roberts [00:18:19]:

Yeah. I mean, that's a different story if they're refusing to pay you.

Sara Lohse [00:18:21]:

Yeah.

Larry Roberts [00:18:22]:

I'm not saying that our brand is dependent on working for free. No one should work for free. And yeah, if they're not paying their invoices, uh, you know, they, they can take a long walk off, short period, in my personal opinion. But, uh, you know, I'm talking about those scenarios where people were paying.

Sara Lohse [00:18:38]:

Oh, yeah.

Larry Roberts [00:18:39]:

You know, they're committing to their, they're, they're keeping up their end of the bargain, but they're just really just taking advantage. You know, those are the kind of, kind of clients I'm talking about there.

Sara Lohse [00:18:48]:

I like, I pride myself on being very kind, very polite, like when I'm talking to clients and very personable and it's like one on one. I want them to be like my friends and I'm never very confrontational in the professional space. I had to, I had to confront.

Larry Roberts [00:19:06]:

I had to confrontation and to confront.

Sara Lohse [00:19:08]:

I had to confrontational. But it was like, it was really just more of their customer service, their, like the experience with their brand of, this is what we, this is how we treat people.

Larry Roberts [00:19:20]:

Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:19:21]:

And I think part of it was being a solopreneur, being someone that it's just me and I'm just little girl in my twenties running this little company and probably seems really easy to take advantage of and people will take advantage of things like that. So they were not expecting me to say that my lawyer has already looked over everything and is ready to pursue if necessary. And they also didn't know that by my lawyer. I met my best friend's husband, who I pay and spoiling my niece. But that's not important. They don't know that.

Larry Roberts [00:19:54]:

Yeah, no, but really go to work.

Sara Lohse [00:19:58]:

Like, oh. But he had looked over everything and he was like, I think I venmoed him like, a penny. And I said, now you're on retainer. It really, like, it shows if you're. That's how you're treating people who are working for you, how are you treating other people?

Larry Roberts [00:20:09]:

Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:20:10]:

And I lost all respect for that company. I'm pretty sure they've, like, gone under and they have.

Larry Roberts [00:20:18]:

I'm pretty sure we.

Sara Lohse [00:20:19]:

Do we call them out? Do we call them out?

Larry Roberts [00:20:21]:

We don't call them out. No, that's. That's. No, we don't call them out because I think they're. I think they're defunct. I think they defaulted and they probably.

Sara Lohse [00:20:28]:

Probably. I think they rhyme with Gastagar.

Larry Roberts [00:20:33]:

Yeah. Yeah, that's a. That's a good clue. That's a good clue, man. Sounds like a wizard from Harry Potter, right?

Sara Lohse [00:20:41]:

Like Lord of the Rings.

Larry Roberts [00:20:43]:

Well, we got. We got way off base here on this one.

Sara Lohse [00:20:46]:

Customer service.

Larry Roberts [00:20:47]:

Sorry, rhymes with Gastagar.

Sara Lohse [00:20:51]:

Y'all can kiss my ass.

Larry Roberts [00:20:53]:

Hey, whoa, whoa. Kiss my astagar. So, yeah, anyways, yes, but really, when.

Sara Lohse [00:21:01]:

You have that good customer service, you start to gain that reputation, you start to get those clients who are going to be those repeat customers and it's going to almost always increase your revenue because of that. And you have to kind of look at it more big picture, too, because if you're offering refunds on things like that's money out of your pocket, that's decreasing. But the effect that it's going to have more in the long run is what's important. And it can be tough, though, because when you are a small business, if you pay me something now and then, you ask for that money back in like a month, that money's gone, that has been spent. Like, we don't all have this big cash reserve that we can just sit on in case we need to pay someone back. So it can be really tough, but it's part of what you just have to do, and you have to just eat it.

Larry Roberts [00:21:51]:

Yeah, I get it, man. Not everybody can use their dollar 200 with a business cards to wrap their g wagon. I mean, it's just not something that everybody can do. I mean, it's a luxury that I enjoy, but I get where most people, you know, he drives a Ford by g wagon. I mean, Ford Edge. But, but, but, yeah, man, I think that's that. I wanted to share that story because I think there's a lot to learn from it. One, make sure that if you're designing your business cards and you're using Photoshop, turn off the template guideline layer before you upload the image.

Larry Roberts [00:22:28]:

That's always a plus.

Sara Lohse [00:22:29]:

Proofread before your print. Double check before your print.

Larry Roberts [00:22:34]:

Yeah, it's just weird because I know, I know, I know. I looked at it, and for some reason, in my people little mind, it went, yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's right.

Sara Lohse [00:22:44]:

What is the saying in, like, construction? It's measure twice, cut once.

Larry Roberts [00:22:48]:

Yeah, yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:22:48]:

Here it's like, check twice, print once.

Larry Roberts [00:22:51]:

And I know. I checked multiple times and still printed twice. I went, yeah, cool, that'll work.

Sara Lohse [00:22:58]:

When you showed it to me, though, I was really confused about it. I was like, what's up with all the lines? I guess.

Larry Roberts [00:23:03]:

Yeah. Well, thanks for saying something.

Sara Lohse [00:23:05]:

I don't, I haven't used Moo. I actually used them years ago, but I didn't remember. I thought maybe that's just like, how they do their proofs. I don't know.

Larry Roberts [00:23:12]:

Thanks, partner.

Sara Lohse [00:23:13]:

I think I just had more faith in you than you deserved.

Larry Roberts [00:23:15]:

Yeah. In that instance, yes.

Sara Lohse [00:23:17]:

Like, you would never.

Larry Roberts [00:23:19]:

Oh, but he would. Oh, but he did.

Sara Lohse [00:23:23]:

Never underestimate. Never overestimate it.

Larry Roberts [00:23:26]:

Well, once again, thanks to move. For all their support and their amazing customer service, hopefully you got some value out of this episode and put a little thought into your own level of customer service that you provide, because your brand depends on it. So with that, I'm Larry Roberts.

Sara Lohse [00:23:42]:

And I'm Sara Lohse. And if you're waiting on an email response from me, I am so sorry. You're not gonna get it.

Larry Roberts [00:23:47]:

Not gonna happen.

Sara Lohse [00:23:48]:

We'll talk to you next week.