How to Brand Yourself While Working a 9 to 5

Larry Roberts [00:00:09]:

What is happening, everybody? I'm Larry Roberts.

Sara Lohse [00:00:12]:

And I'm Sara Lohse. And this is Branded, your comprehensive guide to creative branding.

Larry Roberts [00:00:16]:

And on this episode of the podcast, we're gonna be talking about dun dun dun branding. How weird is that?

Sara Lohse [00:00:24]:

Oh my gosh. We're really mixing it up today.

Larry Roberts [00:00:27]:

Definitely changing up the pace a bit. But we've got us a guest here. His name is Dave Pollock. And Dave has a very lengthy resume in startups and he's the founder of his own business, which most of us are, that listen to branded, which is great. That's why we asked him to join us. So he started his career at an online reputation company called Brand.com. so I see there's some cohesiveness here in this conversation. He founded the content marketing agency's Presto media zing and Zenpost and has worked with brands including Yahoo, ask.

Larry Roberts [00:01:01]:

And this one was new to me, Pandadoc. I don't. I didn't know pandas needed docs very often. But hey, if there's an app for it, it's out there. And we. We love our pandas. So, Dave, welcome to Brandon.

Dave Polykoff [00:01:13]:

Love it. That was a wonderful introduction. I forgot that I did all those things. So it was a nice reminder. And yeah, panda docs, pandas need documents too. And we were there to help get the word out amongst the panda community. So, you know, branding crawl, you're doing the Lord's work.

Larry Roberts [00:01:29]:

Like, this is my acreage of bamboo right here. I've got a contract that says that. Here's my panda doc. Anyways.

Dave Polykoff [00:01:36]:

Yeah.

Larry Roberts [00:01:39]:

So, Dave, man, what's going on? Tell us about how you look at Brandy. I mean, I know that's a very, very wide open question, but just kind of give us the rundown and kind of how'd you get into branding?

Dave Polykoff [00:01:50]:

Yeah, well, I mean, I won't take you through the full story, but as you mentioned, one of the first startups and companies that I joined right out of college, actually, while I was in college, was a company called brand.com dot. And we were, it was online reputation management. So we were helping people with their online Personas. And when you google them, what showed up and, yeah, so, like, that was my first taste into how powerful the Internet is and how powerful controlling your online perception is when it comes to just both online and offline. You know, people, the first thing they're going to do when they meet you is Google you and see what your online resume looks like. Right? So, you know, we were dealing with doctors, lawyers, like big name celebrities, and that that influenced their business and their career. And then that ultimately led to me starting my own content agency. And then that really evolved into Zenpost, which is where we work with thought leaders, coaches, consultants to help shape their online Persona, their messaging, and ultimately drive leads their way.

Dave Polykoff [00:02:55]:

And it all just feels kind of like a through line since the beginning of my career, so been always in content, always in branding, always in, like, content technology. So I have a strong, like, software background and building softwares and apps to support content. So it's like the nerdy side of me. And so I kind of just blended the two worlds together.

Larry Roberts [00:03:15]:

That's, that's super cool. And, you know, I love the fact that you, you have that through line. You worked for brand.com, which wasn't what a lot of people think is branding. You know, and we fall into this trap all the time. People are thinking that it's a logo or it's a font or it's a brand guideline that outlines the colors of your brand, but you were really looking at online reputations and that's what really makes up the core of our brand. Right?

Dave Polykoff [00:03:40]:

Yeah. And as I like to say, I mean, when you, again, you think of branding, you think of logos, right? And so you think of Nike and the swoosh and all that. And what I'm more focused on, and I think is kind of where the world is evolving, too, is people want to buy from people instead of companies. And that's why on TikTok, all these, like, logo companies are now putting faces to the names through TikTok accounts and they're kind of joining the conversation that way. But what I like to say is, you know, your profile picture is your personal brand logo. And so these days, you know, the branding, the logo really is just, you know, your face in a way. So I think branding in a sense, is evolving over time now as we get more into, like, the individual, as the business, which is just really exciting. That's the stuff that I really love.

Dave Polykoff [00:04:31]:

And I just, you know, people being able to step away from maybe a career that they weren't happy with and really just make a name for themselves with their own products and services and be kind of a me llc. And so, yeah, branding, in my eyes, is really just taking the experiences you've had throughout your life, the knowledge you've obtained, the resources, the methods, the deep beliefs systems that you have, and then translating that into products, services that other people can opt into and learn from you. And that's kind of like the digital age we're getting into is just really kind of democratizing the education of being able to learn some of these big business things. So branding is important now from the individual perspective, because if everyone's a brand, there's 8 billion people in the world and there could be 8 billion personal brands. How do you differentiate yourself against the consultant coach next door? And that's where branding really comes in, because it's, it's like what's unique about you? You know, what's your way of doing it? What's your ideology? What's the little quirks of personality, quirks about you? What's your story? That people are going to resonate more than the coach next door. So that's where branding really comes into play.

Sara Lohse [00:05:49]:

One of the things that I get asked about a lot is the difference between like a personal brand and a professional brand, like a business brand, and like how we have to go about things differently. And you, like we said in your intro, you've worked with some pretty big name companies, but now you're focusing more on the individual. What do you see being those biggest differences when you're building that personal brand versus when you're working for these big companies with their brand?

Dave Polykoff [00:06:15]:

It's a really great question and actually really timely because I was just on a sales call yesterday, someone who actually wanted to use Zenpost for a client of theirs, which was a business. And at the top of the call I was like, well, you know, we more so focus on individuals. And he asked the same question. He's like, well, can you still apply the same services to a business? So it's very timely. But yeah, I would say it's very similar in the sense that there's still the core pillars that are core pillars for your strategy overall. What we call the personal brand blueprint, which is your messaging, understanding who your target market is and what their needs are and what your history as an individual or business is. And then kind of combining those two things from a messaging and sales messaging perspective, the other things being like your digital billboards, online profiles, website lead magnets and such. And then lastly is just the actual awareness of your brand.

Dave Polykoff [00:07:14]:

So content creation, content marketing, outbound engagements with other accounts and such and all of that, I would apply the same strategies, very similar strategies, at least to businesses as I would brands or personal brands. But I think the core difference there is just from the individual's perspective, because a company is more of an enigma of multiple thoughts and leaderships and vps and is, you know, accumulation of a lot of things and then that needs to be distilled down to a few core things and then represented. While from, like, an individual, you're kind of looking at it just from, like, an individual story. You know, what they personally went through, what their personal ideologies are. And so again, I see all of us, we should all be looking at ourselves as a business. So that's why those things correlate so well. But I think it's just more, so just more elements are involved in a business. There's more stories to be told from different individuals, the CEO's history, the founder's history, different departments and such.

Dave Polykoff [00:08:28]:

And just a lot of bureaucracy, too, when it comes to businesses, too. So there's certain things you can't say the legal processes behind all that kind of stuff. And so it's sometimes limiting. But with individuals, you're representing yourself, how you want to be represented. There's no real bureaucracies there. So I think it's very similar, but it really just kind of comes down to which story is being told, whose story is being told. And also just from a personal standpoint, why we switched from businesses working b two b to working with individuals is because it's kind of that bureaucracy element is like when we would provide services to a business, it was like we were helping kind of like an entity grow, but we never really felt a connection between what we were providing and the end result. But when we work with individuals, like, we see an individual's life change.

Dave Polykoff [00:09:24]:

You know, like, they're driving more sales, they're getting more revenue into their business, and, like, they're able to take time off of work, they're able to go on that vacation, they're able to support their endeavors and family. And we get direct feedback, like, you've helped change my life. And that's been a large part of why we really focus on individuals now. It's just kind of like that immediate Roi from us in terms of, like, seeing the impact and Roi of our services.

Sara Lohse [00:09:54]:

I was going to say it makes me think of, like, small business week when everyone's, like, really pushes for people to go shop small. And I've seen signs that say, like, when you shop at a small business, you help the owner's kid get braces versus when you shop at a big company, you're helping the CEO get, like, another Ferrari.

Dave Polykoff [00:10:12]:

Right, right.

Sara Lohse [00:10:14]:

It's very similar, but also makes me think, like, there's people that haven't really started that individual journey yet. And another thing that I get asked a lot is when you're still working at a big company, how do you start building that personal brand without, like, crossing lines too much? Have you seen people do it well? Have you seen people do it poorly? Like, what would you tell people that want to start building that brand before they cut ties with their nine to five?

Dave Polykoff [00:10:43]:

Yeah. Well, I'll start with the idea of a lot of people who are in the w two nine to five profession, I think, default to thinking they don't need a personal brand because I'm not selling services, I'm not a coach, I don't have an offer or whatever. Our strong opinion is that's just absolutely false. Everyone really needs a personal brand or at least control their perception online, largely because even though you're in a w two profession, you still need job security, you're still going for that raise, you're still. You're not going to be with that company forever, and you're going to be going maybe to a. Your dream job, and you're gonna be applying for that dream job somewhere else. And again, the first thing they're gonna do is Google you. I mean, resumes are nice, but really, it's, you know, let me look you up online, see what you've done, see what your opinions are and things like that.

Dave Polykoff [00:11:36]:

And so everyone, regardless of whether you're an entrepreneur or, you know, a w two employee, still needs a personal brand because it's gonna pay off. And again, maybe in a couple of years, you want to venture out from the nine to five and do your own thing. But, yeah, I had that preface there that really just took me on a different direction. So I've seen a lot of people on LinkedIn who have been like, vps of content or heads of content at certain companies that have then started building their online brand through LinkedIn and showcasing what they've been doing for that company and really started to invest into, like, their visual identity and things like that, and grown a following, so much so that they've been able to have that following to then spin off and do their own thing. So they would leave that probably six figure company salary position to go do their own thing and spin off and be their own personal brand. And that process for them is really just kind of like documenting what they are learning at that company along the way. So it's really like demonstration. It's really documentation of what they're learning along that journey.

Dave Polykoff [00:12:57]:

And a lot of times it's because they're in positions that are putting them in these high level, high strategic marketing campaigns where they need to be making these, like, really large decisions and have these large budgets and such. So a lot of it is just kind of like taking what your day to day is now, the ins and outs of the meetings, the campaigns you're leading, and then just translating that into knowledge. On LinkedIn, mostly LinkedIn, just being that that's like the most professional network. And again, it's just a lot of people, I think, get worried that, you know, they have, like, the imposter syndrome of, like, why me? Who am I to be voicing this right now? But a lot of people don't have the insights that they're having if they're in the positions where they're making some of these decisions. Again, like, if you're leading a team, if you are leading a marketing campaign, those are lessons learned along the way. So largely, it's just a matter of kind of like translating your experiences into content. And then, yeah, grow that following. And if you reach a point where you feel as though you want to take that kind of entrepreneurial leap into the deep end, then you already have that following.

Dave Polykoff [00:14:12]:

That's a trusted group of people that are kind of listening and trusting everything that you're saying. So that when you go to generate an offer, then that's going to be the next step for them, is they're going to say, okay, whatever this guy's selling, I want some of it.

Larry Roberts [00:14:29]:

You know, I want to take it back a little bit, though, because I love what you were saying about the fact that there's, it's never too early to start building that personal brand. And even if you're still married to your w two, there's still that opportunity for building that personal brand within a corporate environment. And I'm a living testament to that, because I created a really, really bad brand in my corporate career. I was with the same company for 21 years, and the last probably seven of those, I was freaking hating life, and I was not happy in my corporate position. We acquired a company, and one of the managers from that company came in and ended up, after we were interviewed, we interviewed him. I was one of the guys that got to interview this cat. And all of us at the company said, yeah, I don't hire this dude. And not only did they hire him, he became a boss.

Larry Roberts [00:15:16]:

And so I was really, really pissed off about that for a very long time. And it showed, and it showed in my work, it showed in my brand, it showed in everything that I did at the company. And even when there came a time where I was like, you know what? I just need to change gears and get back on a horse and do my thing. It was too late because I had so much damage to that personal brand, and I'd have had so many subversive secret meetings behind closed doors about said manager that it just. It bit me in the backside. So you have to keep that in mind all the time. And, you know, it comes down to the fact, too, and you were saying this earlier, is that it's our values, it's our principles. It's how you appear online, it's how you appear on LinkedIn, it's how you appear on Facebook.

Larry Roberts [00:16:02]:

It's everything. Just like the title of my book, I got to get a plug in. It's everything that's under the red hat. You know, the red hat is what people think is my personal brand. And to a degree it is, but it's really not. It's what gets me the attention so that then I can demonstrate my personal brand. And it's the same thing in a corporate environment. You're constantly delivering and you're constantly demonstrating that personal brand each and every day with each and every action or inaction that you take or fail to take.

Larry Roberts [00:16:30]:

So I love the fact that you're driving that point home because I couldn't support it more. So I think you were spot on there.

Sara Lohse [00:16:37]:

I mean, I had. I had a very similar experience when I was working at the ad agency in Maryland before I moved to Texas. I was so just, like, done. I was so over Maryland, also over, like, the rut I was in that my heads of departments even said, it doesn't feel like you're trying to impress us anymore. And I'm just like, yeah, I'm not, because I just. I feel stuck. This is like, this feels so dead end to me right now. But one of the things you kind of said that I think is really important is people think that having a personal brand means you have to be selling something.

Sara Lohse [00:17:11]:

You have to be wanting to be a coach or consultant or an entrepreneur. Your personal brand is just the, like, digital embodiment of who you are. That is really important. Even if you're just applying for another job, if you're trying to move into another position at a different company or move up in your company, the way that you present yourself online, the way that you showcase your. Your knowledge and your skills and your experience, that's going to help you get hired somewhere else. It's not just about I want to be that me, LLC. It's, I want to be a higher position somewhere else. I need to prove online that I have what it takes.

Dave Polykoff [00:17:52]:

Yeah. And I would say, I know a lot of people get weary of that, taking that jump into a personal brand because they get a little concerned that they either have to do, like, you know, tick tock dance moves or, like, you know, when they think of, like, influencer or, you know, showing up online, they kind of have the hard Larry.

Sara Lohse [00:18:12]:

Still owes us a TikTok dance from, like, episode two.

Larry Roberts [00:18:15]:

Oh, I was supposed to do something. What was, what was I supposed to do?

Sara Lohse [00:18:18]:

Oh, yeah, you owe, you owe us a TikTok dance.

Larry Roberts [00:18:20]:

I know there was something I was supposed to do, but anyways, let's just let that slide. Thanks, Dave. Appreciate you bringing it up, brother.

Sara Lohse [00:18:28]:

We got the panda docs to prove it.

Dave Polykoff [00:18:30]:

Yeah, see, that's what we did. Tic tac dance moves for panda dot. But, yeah, then they'll think, like, you know, personal content. Like, I'll have to take pictures of my kids and I have to talk about my, the vacations I'm taking, and, or they have to think, like, well, maybe they do want to talk a little bit sales content. And people feel, like, very bashful about trying to be salesy online or even just like, informative content. They don't want to come off as a know it all or, like, you know, shoving facts down your throat all the time and such. So can be difficult to feel comfortable getting into content creation and starting a personal brand because you might have the knowledge, the experience and such. But translating that into content that you feel comfortable with and in, you know, is sometimes very difficult for people, especially, like, you know, videos.

Dave Polykoff [00:19:22]:

Huge. You know, podcasting. LinkedIn has vertical video. They're pushing really hard now. So people see the value of showing up on video, but are, can be so uncomfortable pressing record. And so I think there is this, like, gap between people maybe knowing that they should start a personal brand, knowing that they should be creating content, but just not knowing how to translate what's in their head, translate their stories into content. So that's usually where starting small, just starting with commenting on other people's content. Cause even comments is content and then kind of working up the courage to start posting on your own.

Larry Roberts [00:20:05]:

Yeah, I think it's funny.

Sara Lohse [00:20:06]:

Roberts is a fraud. Discuss.

Larry Roberts [00:20:08]:

Yeah, yeah. Appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, some cat. That's my one hater in there. And we love it. We love the fact it was hater. Somebody posted that I was a fraud on.

Larry Roberts [00:20:16]:

What is it? Rumble, I think is what it was or something like that. But anyways, God, now you now you got me. I had a point. And it just. It's gone. Where was it? Oh, I think it was about creating content and being afraid to hit record. It's interesting because Sarah and I just started recording some educational content, right? And actually, we did this yesterday. And with this educational content, it's scripted, right? We built scripts for it.

Larry Roberts [00:20:39]:

Well, chat built scripts for us, but we were using scripts for this educational content. And after recording it, we kind of had this little epiphany in that we seem to be having more fun and seem to be more natural and more ourselves than sometimes when we're doing a podcast, because we have these, and I've been doing this shit for ten years. You've been doing it for five or six. I don't know. It's a while. Yeah. So we have these preconceived, we'll just say years for serious. Sarah's been doing this for years.

Larry Roberts [00:21:10]:

But we have these preconceived notions. We have these preconceived notions of how this is supposed to look, how it's supposed to feel. And it even takes me back ten years ago, and I recorded that very first podcast episode, and me and my co host Jamie, we had a snowball. Yeti snowball, which, if you don't know what that is, it's a microphone by Yeti, and it's round. It looks like a softball, basically, but it's. It's. It's. It's a literally a round microphone.

Larry Roberts [00:21:35]:

And we were so careful with everything we did. We enunciated every word clearly. We made sure there wasn't mouth noises when we were speaking. We wanted this to be perfect. And it was the biggest piece of shit that anybody's ever recorded in their lives. And we didn't even release it because it was so freaking bad. And I think that's just a testament to the fact that people are. They're hesitant to hit record, they're hesitant to create content because they have this preconceived notion of what that means, when really it literally is setting up a decent environment.

Larry Roberts [00:22:10]:

Sarah's got an amazing studio office. I've got a fairly decent one. You got your own set up there. That's awesome as well. And it's setting up an environment that's conducive to creating content and just talking, hitting record, getting excited about it, having fun, don't put on airs. But I laughed a minute ago with Sarah when you said that. Your. Your bosses at the time said, it doesn't feel like you're trying to impress us anymore.

Larry Roberts [00:22:32]:

That's because, bitch, we're not. We're not trying to impress. Yeah, and it's just like that, dude, the same dude, he called me a subordinate in the very first meeting we had. He goes, well, as my subordinate, you need to, bruh, I know you've probably.

Sara Lohse [00:22:46]:

Never gotten out of a chair faster, dude.

Larry Roberts [00:22:49]:

No, and I got bad knees, but I still. Come on, man. So it's. It's all about. It's not about impressing people. It's not about, what do we call it? Chain of command. It's all about just being yourself, having fun, creating content, and building that real brand, being who you are, and tapping into those core values and demonstrating that on a consistent basis, whether you're an entrepreneur or whether you're a w two employee.

Dave Polykoff [00:23:17]:

Yeah. And obviously, authenticity is, like, one of the keystones that always. You always come back to with personal branding for that reason. And so people can understand who you are. Do you share core values? And also, too, if you're a coach or consultant or anyone that you're going to be spending time with, maybe you're a realtor, you know, real estate agent, and you need to do showings with the person you're going to be spending time with them, whether it be virtual or in person. You also just want to like. Like the person. So, you know, showing up as your authentic self and just being natural helps people understand.

Dave Polykoff [00:23:50]:

Okay, how are you going to be on a Zoom call? How are we going to be when we, you know, meet up in person or if you're a fitness trainer, like, you know, when we're in the gym and things like that. So, um, you're translating who you actually are in real life onto camera critical, just for the sake of, like, you don't want the whole bait and switch thing. But it can be difficult a lot for people who are just getting started because they feel as though they need to come off a little bit more polished and professional because they're seeing people who have got the reps in and feel more comfortable in front of the camera. Like, I'm sure if we all go back to our first videos, we are not as polished as we are today or comfortable in front of the camera.

Larry Roberts [00:24:29]:

I mean, look at three months ago, you were brand new, and now today you're a freaking pro. I mean, it's.

Dave Polykoff [00:24:34]:

I appreciate it.

Sara Lohse [00:24:35]:

Your camera hasn't cut off one time.

Dave Polykoff [00:24:38]:

All right. I'm still learning about how to be on camera because I had my cat toy just went off, like, ten minutes ago. It's just, you know, I need to lock myself in, like, a chamber of quietness. Love it. But, yeah, I interview people for my podcast, and when I see that they're really comfortable and great on camera, I'll ask them, like, how did you become so authentic and natural on camera? And the number one thing I always hear is they just get the reps in, and over time, you figure it out, and you stop looking at the camera as though it's your enemy. And it's, you know, a quote I heard the other day is, in terms of, like, how'd you become such a great speaker? And one of the mindsets that she discussed was the idea of, like, okay, say you took a time machine back to, you're on the Titanic, and it's like, 30 minutes before the iceberg is about to hit. And you knew the iceberg's coming, right? You would go to everyone, and you would voice what you knew with such passion and energy, and it would just come across in such a way of, like, I know something that is going to save lives. I need people to know what you know what I know first.

Sara Lohse [00:25:55]:

Go to the captain. Go to the one driving the boat.

Dave Polykoff [00:25:59]:

I would go to whoever that dude was, the ice bag straight ahead. I would just go to that guy, make sure he has his moment. But, yes, I'd go to the captain and voice what I knew. And I love that concept where when you stop approaching it from, what. What do I look like? You know, do I look good on camera? Am I coming off or coming across smart and more so about the other person, like, who you're actually trying to, you know, educate and give value to? I think you come across a little bit more natural just because, like, it's less about you and more about them that just goes back to storytelling and, you know, telling what, you know.

Sara Lohse [00:26:46]:

I'm just gonna keep plugging. I mean, people should really open this book.

Dave Polykoff [00:26:54]:

Link in the description.

Sara Lohse [00:26:57]:

Find it on Amazon, openthis book.com. anyway, I feel like a lot of people are trying to create the same content that everyone else is creating because they think that's what they're supposed to do. This is what people are putting out. I have to put it out. But you said something about real estate agents before, and it made me think of, there's a real estate agent on TikTok, Instagram reels, whatever it is, no idea what his name is. Uh, but he. I. All of the real estate agents, you see them going through a house just like, this is the master bedroom, and look at this.

Sara Lohse [00:27:25]:

Like, en suite, and, like, that's great. I don't want a house right now, so I'm not even paying attention. But there's this r1 estate agent that makes me pay attention because he's so authentic and so funny. And instead of just, like, this is how amazing the house is, it's like, y'all, I got to pay my bills. Someone buy this house. Look, there's a bathroom. It's great. But seriously, someone buy this house.

Sara Lohse [00:27:46]:

I've got a car payment to make. Like, it's so funny because it's so real. Like, we all get that. We all get like, yeah, no, I want to make this seem really great, but the whole point, I'm here because I need y'all to pay me. Like, I need to make some money. And it's just so authentic, and it's so different than the rest of the content that is being put out in that niche. And I'm not in the market, but I watch it.

Dave Polykoff [00:28:09]:

I don't need to buy a house.

Larry Roberts [00:28:11]:

There's a dude that sells cars that just caught my attention, I don't know, a couple weeks ago, and he's stitching in the popular video memes, and then he cuts it off and he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great and all, but I got this right here. 2021 Jeep Cherokee that's ready to rock and roll. Come see me. And he just ties them in so seamlessly that he's capitalizing on the popularity of a meme and then going, yeah, yeah, whatever. That's bullshit. This is what you need to worry about. You need this 21 Jeep Cherokee right here. So come.

Larry Roberts [00:28:38]:

Come holler at me. And I love that dynamic interaction and the way that he's using content in a very unique and very authentic way. And I've sent his videos to all my car sales buddies because I'm like, bruh, you need to do this right here to get the attention that you're after instead. Cause I've got some friends there in the car business, and they'll go, oh, thank you to so and so for buying this new ride from me. It's so great to have you as part of the Dodge family or whatever the hell it is. And that's great and all. It's give them props and all that fun stuff. You might get some referrals, but it doesn't get attention on social media.

Larry Roberts [00:29:09]:

You know, they end up with one or two views, which are their friends or the person that bought the car that's engaging with the post but if you do something that's creative, if you do something that's authentically you, that you tap into that creativity, you get that attention, you get that engagement. And I'd be willing to bet that that dude that started doing these videos, I guarantee you salesman of the month. I guarantee it.

Sara Lohse [00:29:29]:

I think one of the key things with like, yes, authenticity and all of that, but the unexpected piece of it, like, everyone expects those, thanks for buying this car for me. Everyone expects those, here's a house tour of what's on the market. People aren't expecting that to come after some ridiculous meme. People aren't expecting the, like, I don't care about this house, guys. Just buy it because I'm broke. Those are things that people don't see coming. And I mean, I talk about this in my book, open this book, available on Amazon, but I talk about one of the key pieces of being compelling in your storytelling is you have to make it unexpected. And it's so important, even in content creation, do something different.

Sara Lohse [00:30:14]:

Do something that we don't see coming, and it's going to be so much easier to resonate.

Dave Polykoff [00:30:19]:

I think the reason we're seeing a lot of copy paste is because it's easier to see what a competitor or someone in the industry is doing that's working and going, okay, then I'll just do that. And unfortunately don't fix it. Yeah, and unfortunately, a lot of times that still does work. That's a lot of the creator economy is just like, especially you see it on TikTok is like, if there's a trend going on and people are getting millions and millions of views on it, they're going to hop on it, too. Or even if it's just a video, they did really well. They're just going to copy it. You know, copy paste and literally, like, word by word do it. And, you know, to a degree, there's some strategy in there in the sense of like, if something's working, do your variation on it, because obviously that resonates, whether it be the topic or the format or whatever.

Dave Polykoff [00:31:12]:

But yeah, it's just when the whole industry kind of just, it's like a school of fish that all just kind of swims together, you know, and you just continue to see the same types of content. So it really takes, like, you gotta applaud the people that really do get creative with that kind of stuff and go, you know what? Like, this is who I am, so I don't care what everyone else is doing. This is who I am. And this is how I'm gonna approach this content. And if it works, it works. And I think you, early on in your content journey, it's good to see, like, what's working. Try your hand at that type of format just to kind of understand what it means to create content, the process of content. You don't need to be this, like, creative genius right out of the gate.

Dave Polykoff [00:31:55]:

I think it's best to really just understand the process of creating content and staying consistent with it and understanding why a piece of content did better than another piece, and just, like, have the training wheels on for a bit. And then as you find your voice, as you get, like, comfortable in front of a camera, as you understand how to work a camera and all that kind of stuff work, you know, an editing tool and all that kind of stuff, then you can start getting a little bit more creative. And I think eventually you'll find something that just hits, and then you double down on that and you kind of continue to be in that lane. And I think that's why when you see these people who are doing something so unique, I can guarantee that wasn't, like, what they did for their first video. I'm sure they kind of built themselves into that, found that, oh, my audience really loves when I do this. And then they just kind of double down on that over time.

Sara Lohse [00:32:43]:

Even with the things that are trending, like those trends that everybody does, the ones that I see that I'm just like, okay, that was really cool. Are the ones that take a trend, but then flip it to have something that is still unexpected. Like, you see all of these videos that are young girls dancing, but then you see the same dance being done by someone's grandmother. And I love those videos because it's like, okay, I've seen a million, like, 20 something year olds do this, but here's an 80 something year old doing it, and I'm worried she's going to break a hip. But it's so funny. Cause it's so unexpected. So anything you can do? Stop giving me that look, Larry.

Larry Roberts [00:33:18]:

Oh, yeah, that's ageism, Sarah.

Sara Lohse [00:33:21]:

I'm loving the algorithm for her health. You don't want to know my TikTok algorithm. It is just a mess.

Larry Roberts [00:33:27]:

If you're watching 20 something year old girls dance, I do want to know your algorithm. Yes, actually.

Sara Lohse [00:33:33]:

That is personal. But seriously, when you can take a trend that everyone is doing, and you can find a way to add an element that is unexpected, it's going to do so well because people, they watch it knowing, like, okay, I know where this is going, but then it doesn't go there, and that's what people love.

Dave Polykoff [00:33:53]:

Yeah, I mean, a large area channel of focus for me is LinkedIn, and there's only videos becoming a little more and more popular on there. But largely, like, the types of content you'll see on LinkedIn is really just like text posts, selfie photos, carousels, like infographics. There's certain content that performs better on LinkedIn than others, but it starts to come down to more so, like, visual identity than it does. I mean, the content is always important, but to stand out, there really are no trends on LinkedIn as much as it just what type of content, what format of content performs better than others. But then what's going to stop my scroll is really where the branding element comes in. And I think that's a large part of visual identity. And in fact, I just worked with a visual identity designer to draft mine a couple of months ago, and I wanted to invest into my brand's visual identity so that I can stand out in a LinkedIn feed, being that it's tough to really, like, stand out otherwise, because there's not a lot of uniqueness that you can do in that LinkedIn feed. I wanted to ask, too, because I know you mentioned the red hat is like, your kind of, like, key brand identity there as, like, the visual identity.

Dave Polykoff [00:35:23]:

Was that a conscious decision? Did you, like, did you just start wearing it and then got known for it? Like, how did that end up being?

Larry Roberts [00:35:29]:

I appreciate you asking that. And actually, it was an accident. 100% accident. If you look here behind me, on this side of the screen, you'll see a supreme hat in a glass case, because that was the birth of the red hat. I had a speaking engagement at the Emily arena in Tampa, Florida, and it was a younger audience and, well, I still think I'm 25, even though I'm not. So I was rocking my supreme hat, I was rocking my rock revival jeans, was rocking my Jordan. So I was really just a. A billboard of brands.

Larry Roberts [00:35:56]:

And I gave the talk, came down, and a good friend of ours, Alex Sanfilippo, he and I, we speak on the same stages. Most of the time, we give each other shit every time we come down, just boys hanging out, you know, and he goes, but for real, why are you wearing that supreme hat? And I told him to try and be cool. And he goes, hey, man, are they paying you? And I'm like, bruh, I'm a middle aged white male. They pay me not to wear it. If we're being honest here. So, so he goes, then don't wear their stuff on stage. Don't wear somebody else's merch on stage unless they're paying you. He goes, but, but I love the red because although you can't tell here, I'm about six foot three at about 240.

Larry Roberts [00:36:31]:

And so I'm a big guy. And he goes, with that red hat on, you're like a beacon. I can see you all the way across the arena. So it really made me stand out. So I went home, tossed the supreme hat to the side, bought a $6 unbranded red hat, and within a few months, I was the red hat guy in the podcast industry. And then a few months later, the AI industry, and it just continued to evolve. The red hat is where it's at. So now all of my branding is black and white except for the red hat.

Larry Roberts [00:36:56]:

The red hat's always there, and it's, it's landed me speaking gigs. It's gotten me clients. It's, it's just, it changed my life, literally. And it's only been what, three years, Sarah?

Sara Lohse [00:37:06]:

Something like that.

Larry Roberts [00:37:07]:

Yeah, about three years. And it just changed everything. Once I found this identifier and, you know, we talk about authenticity, it just happened to be reduced. But I always wear hats, so it's just a natural. Yeah, and it, red's not even my favorite. Blue is my favorite color. So I did work some blue into the background here, but, but I just, you know, I don't hate red, you know what I mean? But it just, it really wasn't my vibe, but from that perspective. But I adopted it just perfectly fine.

Larry Roberts [00:37:33]:

And I've, again, always wore hats, so it's super, super natural for me. And it just works, you know, it just works. So, and about his, probably about four or five months after that talk, I was at bitcoin Miami, in Miami, Florida, massive conference, 30 some odd thousand people in attendance over three or four days. And over those three or four days, I was there as a podcaster, content creator, multiple people that I didn't even know walked up and said, aren't you the podcast guy? And I was like, yeah, how'd you know that? And they go, the red hat. And I was like, holy shit, this is 100% legit. So changed the business name, changed everything, and that's it. And so the red hat is my gig.

Dave Polykoff [00:38:13]:

I, and again, I think it kind of goes back to, it's, it's your logo. I mean, red hat, standalone, shore, but like all of that, you know, is the logo. Right. You know, like, it's. It's all, you know, if you were to take a silhouette of that, you know, it's still you. So, yeah, I love that concept. And I have a. I have a buddy, my little guy.

Dave Polykoff [00:38:33]:

There you go. I thought I was. I thought I was in the branding game, but I don't have a bobblehead of myself, so I didn't buy it.

Larry Roberts [00:38:42]:

It was a gift. So I'm not. My ego's not that big. I didn't buy it myself, so that actually, it was. Well, it's from Alex and a few others. They pitched in to get me this. So I think this was my birthday last year, maybe. I think last year before.

Sara Lohse [00:38:57]:

Years ago.

Larry Roberts [00:38:58]:

Yeah. Anyway, yeah, it's fun.

Dave Polykoff [00:39:02]:

That's awesome. Yeah, I say, I have a buddy who also deeply invested his personal brand online, and his thing is confetti, and that's kind of like the thing that he's taken and used as his shtick. So all of his social content incorporates confetti. He works with staff. He oversees staff and uses confetti in real life to kind of, like, boost morale. And it's kind of, like, symbol for him. And it just kind of, like, happened organically, and I. And now it's just like, he has a business and a book that incorporates the concept of confetti, so it's, like, throughout his entire brand.

Dave Polykoff [00:39:43]:

And I asked him, he actually was on one of my podcast. It was the first episode, my podcast episode show, and I just, like, asked him, like, where that came from. Like, how did you. That's so unique. It makes you stand out in the feed and just, like, such a nice, cohesive thing to do from, like, a branding perspective. And he, like, same thing. He's like, it just kind of happened. It stumbled on.

Dave Polykoff [00:40:05]:

Stumbled upon it or whatever, and then it just stuck and he went with it and. Yeah, so I think in terms of, like, anyone who's trying to, like, find their shtick, it's. I know some. Some clients we work with, you know, we've worked with a couple of, like, lawyers who are with lawyers, they always want to be the something lawyer, you know, like that stick that they can put on the billboard or whatever. I. And they're, like, trying to rack their brain about, like, what can be, like, my thing that I can put on the billboard and, you know, that brand. And, like, it's. It kind of just has to, like, come to you in a way.

Dave Polykoff [00:40:36]:

It can't just be that thing that you, like, workshop on a whiteboard. One day or whatever. So, yeah, it's. It's funny how this works.

Sara Lohse [00:40:42]:

I spent a lot of time workshopping becoming the girl with the penis tattoo.

Dave Polykoff [00:40:48]:

Yeah, yeah. When? One drunken night.

Sara Lohse [00:40:53]:

That was a lot of personal and professional brainstorming. I brought in a branding coach and everything, and they're like, yeah, totally. Become the girl with the penis tattoo.

Dave Polykoff [00:41:04]:

That's it.

Larry Roberts [00:41:06]:

You brought up lawyers, and I think it's hilarious. If you want to see a really cool lawyer, his name is Brian Wilson. He's the Texas law hawk, and he is one of the most creative lawyers I've ever seen in my life. He has some of the best videos. They are insane. And he just works in that whole hawk theme. Not hawk tua, by the way. Just.

Larry Roberts [00:41:26]:

Just the hawk the bird.

Dave Polykoff [00:41:27]:

That's trademark.

Larry Roberts [00:41:28]:

Yeah, hawk two is a whole to the gig. But the Texas law hawk. I had a podcast, I don't know, a long time ago, and actually had him on the podcast, and it was hilarious. He's so creative. His content is so next level, and it just stands out. Cause, I mean, you see all these other lawyers chasing ambulances on commercials and doing this and that to get attention, but this dude just takes it to a whole nother level, and it shows you what you can do. If you do stumble on or find that niche that you fit into, that's a natural fit for you, and you get creative with your content. So, uh, Brian Wilson, if you're listening, hook a brother up.

Larry Roberts [00:42:04]:

Let's do some sponsorships. So, anyways, David, I love this conversation. I always love talking to other branding experts. Before we wrap it up, if you were going to give us one little piece of advice to find our brand, you know? Cause before we. We hit record, we were talking about on this episode, we're gonna talk about mistakes that branding make. You know, people that are trying to create brands tend to make. We didn't really go down that path 100%. But if there is one thing that you saw was the biggest mistake that people made, what would that be and what could they do to change that?

Dave Polykoff [00:42:37]:

Yeah, I think that the number one mistake for people who are trying to go from zero to one is really trying to bite off more than they can chew too early. When we say go from zero to one, we literally mean go from posting nothing to just, like, posting at least one post in a week. Right? And we talked about it earlier in this podcast. But the idea of starting small so you can understand the foundation of what makes good content and studying other people's content dissecting like the formats and the topics and seeing what works. And that takes time to really master and understand, especially when you're creating like full content in front of a video and understanding how a camera works, backdrops, all that kind of stuff. It can feel overwhelming and you feel like you can't start until you have like the sexy studio or like the really nice brand design, visual brand design. But really, it's just start as simple as possible and work your way up to that status that you see some of your other favorite creators do. And again, we mentioned earlier as well, starting simple can just mean showing up and commenting on other people's content and finding what your voice is, what opinions you actually have.

Dave Polykoff [00:44:01]:

In fact, I find that sometimes the best way I come up with topics is going on to other creators accounts, consuming their content and then saying what opinions do I have on this topic? Or what do I have to say about what they're saying? And then replying in like a really insightful way on that post. And that's just like warming you up to getting the idea of like, what do I have to say? Do I actually have strong opinions on this? And then when you go to actually create content is start small. Don't worry about the fancy like designs and video edits and all that kind of stuff. If you're not technical, don't edit, you know, don't try to create video right out the gate. Start with text posts and start with, you know, a couple posts per week and then work your way up. A lot of times people just try to become their favorite creator right out the gate and they get, they fumble on the idea of I need to figure out how to use all these softwares and these camera setups and the studio setups, and they get too bogged down in the stuff that actually doesn't matter.

Larry Roberts [00:45:02]:

Super cool. And I can't agree more. And I watched a video this morning talking about podcasting and how, you know, this whole podcast thing, it's just getting out of control. And what we're seeing, you know, in the industry is roughly there's 5 million podcasts that are out there thanks to the COVID creators that jumped on board. But here's the kicker. Only about 17% to 18% of those are active. So people jump in there and they try to be the next JRe, or they try to be the next your mom's house, or that's how this works, or whatever their favorite podcast may be, and then they realize all the work that goes into it and it becomes extremely intimidating. It becomes extremely overwhelming and then they pod fade and they're gone.

Larry Roberts [00:45:42]:

So I love the fact that you're talking about just taking little bites at a time. Just start comment on a post, create a little content, and then build and build and build. So, Dave, I appreciate it, man. Thank you so much for the conversation.

Dave Polykoff [00:45:54]:

Absolutely. Thank you both for having me on Anddez. Sorry for all the additional technical difficulties that I always have during these things, but for bearing with me, it was a great combo.

Larry Roberts [00:46:04]:

Hey, I thought it was great. And we didn't hear Sarah's dogs bark today. So that's. I think that's the first in the last probably 40 episodes. So we're all. We're all making progress. So, Dave, where can people find you, man?

Dave Polykoff [00:46:17]:

Absolutely. So, yeah, if you want to learn more about what I do and do it for, the best way would be just to link up with me on LinkedIn again. Names Dave Polykoff. I'm sure the link will be in the description, but yeah, friend, request me say that you found me from the branded podcast. So I know you're a loyal listener and, yep, chat on there and we can exchange info and I can kind of show you what I do by just looking at my own personal brand on LinkedIn. Otherwise, check out my personal brand agency, [email protected]. and that'll give you all the information about the services we provide coaches and consultants to launch their personal brand blueprint.

Sara Lohse [00:46:55]:

Also, don't forget to go listen to his podcast, brand Science.

Dave Polykoff [00:46:58]:

Yeah, I have to remember that now that now I have my own podcast, by the way, brand science. And now I'm becoming a guest on other people's podcasts. And I have to remember, I have to plug my own podcast. So appreciate that there.

Larry Roberts [00:47:12]:

She's always looking out. Hey, everybody. Talking about looking out. If you found some value in this episode, look out for us, us by hitting that subscribe button so we can continue to bring you these amazing episodes with these wonderful guests each and every week. And until then, I'm Larry Roberts.

Sara Lohse [00:47:27]:

And I'm Sara Lohse, and we'll talk to you next week.